Yes Giby ji The Plant List and GRIN did differ, but please read note under M. exotica updated in September 2011
" perhaps best treated as *M. paniculata* ‘Exotica’" http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?24702 Besides Wikipedia, please also see the following link http://www.hear.org/pier/species/murraya_paniculata.htm I would be interested to know any recent treatment which considers them separate. -- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Ushadi micromini < [email protected]> wrote: > Dear all: > > one thing I learned from studying cancer .... which is also a study of > structure, biology behaviour... > > one thing I learned: is that we should try to keep an open mind... > > things may turn out to be quite different and may surprise the heck > out of the learned minds, sometimes... > > > nothing is written in stone... > none of these floras.. or hortuses or whoever... went on the mountain > and returned with a burning bush... > these are not commandments from god... merely guidelines made by > experts from some local university groups or botanical gardens, they > study hard and make deductions > BUT what they say should sometimes be taken as a guideline and not > a commandment... > I am sure they never came to India and saw these murraya plants in > action... > > may be it behooves someone/ one two a few ... from our group to do > that... > > somewhere in this thread I had even agreed to collect specimen and > preserve and send for genetic analysis if someone was interested... or > had the grant monies and lab equipment and grad students to do the > research.... > > so lets not fight ... but do something constructive... > > may be we should have a Murraya panniculata week.... once every 3 > months, that will cover the entire year's worth of the plants > behaviour... leaf only, leaf and flowering stage, fruiting stage and > dormancy in deep winter... > which would perhaps be different in different parts of India... > where people will take pictures in Prescribed format, with > rulers /// and collect twigs, plant material fruits... etc... > and press herbarium specimen... from all states of India.... > > and may be ceylon ... kamini grows there too... > > LETS THINK ABOUT THIS.... > > > USHA di > =============== > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 18, 11:06 am, H S <[email protected]> wrote: > > I don't know, how many of us have seen these two plants, but i am sure > who > > ever have seen these two proper specimen will never treat it as one.. > > > > before i had said and again i am saying there are number of gaps in The > > Plant List on Indian plants,,, those who want to follow it, no one can > stop > > them.. > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Dear Vijaysankar ji > > > I am very much aware of eFlora of China and treatment in It, but let us > > > appreciate the fact that Flora of China is 1997 publication. I have > > > following to support my conclusion: > > > > > The Plant list...............................................2010 > > > Wikipedia....................................................September, > > > 2011 > > > GRIN............................................................note on > > > Sept, 2011 based on *Beattie, A.* 2011. pers. comm. via E–mail to L. > > > Fowler on 15 Sept 2011. [re. *M. exotica* vs. *M. paniculata*]. > > > > > Perhaps many more will follow. In my opinion two plants looking > differently > > > does not make much difference. What is important are differences are > > > sufficient enough to merit distinction or merger. I believe in what > > > taxonomic World thinks currently. > > > > > -- > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > > > Retired Associate Professor > > > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > > > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > > > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > > >http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Vijayasankar < > [email protected]>wrote: > > > > >> No HS ji, I am sure He won't neglect FoC's treatment. The editors of > FoC > > >> also had the same opinion like ours, in both the cases Murraya and > > >> Flacourtia. We know that they are (the spp.) different. That's why > when > > >> several Indian Floras treated them as synonyms, we could not agree. > But > > >> someone does come with solutions, and now we are comfortable. Its > matter of > > >> time. Thanks to the dynamic nature of plant systematics. Nothing is > final! > > > > >> Regards > > > > >> Vijayasankar Raman > > >> National Center for Natural Products Research > > >> University of Mississippi > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:53 AM, H S <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>> Thanks Vijay ji for sharing this,, > > > > >>> but even i know that Sirji will not agree with this.. > > > > >>> thanks, > > > > >>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Vijayasankar < > [email protected]>wrote: > > > > >>>> Dear all, > > > > >>>> We all know that Flora of China (FoC) is one of the most trusted > > >>>> efloras, and most of the time a ready reference for identifying our > Indian > > >>>> plants, too. > > >>>> It treats *Murraya paniculata* and *M. exotica* as different > species. > > >>>> We knew this based on our field experience. > > >>>> The differences, as per FoC are: [ > > >>>>http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=121339] > > > > >>>> Leaflet blades mostly suborbicular to ovate to elliptic, 1.5-6 cm > wide* > > >>>> M. paniculata* > > >>>> Leaflet blades elliptic-obovate or obovate, 0.5-3 cm > > >>>> wide *M. exotica* > > > > >>>> These may appear to be variable characters if we refer only > herbarium > > >>>> specimens. > > >>>> Some taxa for e.g. Flacourtia indica & F. romantchii, we know they > are > > >>>> different based on their differences in habit, ecology etc., but its > hard to > > >>>> find strong characters to distinguish them convincingly. > > > > >>>> Regards > > > > >>>> Vijayasankar Raman > > >>>> National Center for Natural Products Research > > >>>> University of Mississippi > > > > >>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Gurcharan Singh < > [email protected]>wrote: > > > > >>>>> Nothing can help one who does not want to see reason. Who can stop > me > > >>>>> if I insist on believing that whole taxonomic World is wrong. Let > those who > > >>>>> want to live in their World be so. > > > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh > > >>>>> Retired Associate Professor > > >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > > >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > > >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > > >>>>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > > > >>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 7:06 PM, H S <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> Dear all, > > >>>>>> If plant is different surely they will have some differences i > > >>>>>> guess... > > > > >>>>>> I think every one will agree that M. paniculata present in the > wild as > > >>>>>> well as in cultivation whereas M. exotica or M. paniculata var. > exotica or > > >>>>>> cv of M. paniculata whatever we say its commonly cultivated in the > garden > > >>>>>> for the glossy laeves and beautiful flowers.. if its cv than who > had made > > >>>>>> it???? no doubt they are different and in Maharashtra both can > seen very > > >>>>>> commonly,, those who eager to see the species can visit Amboli, > > >>>>>> Mahabaleshwar, Mathera, Pune, Bhimashankar etc places to see M. > paniculata > > >>>>>> and M. exotica in Nashik garden, Mumbai (Rani baug, Bombay trust > garden, > > >>>>>> Gorai, Sanjay Gandhi National Park in Plantation near pond,, etc > etc..), > > >>>>>> Kolhapur, Pune garden.. etc etc. > > > > >>>>>> regards, > > > > >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Gurcharan Singh < > [email protected]>wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> Mahadeswara ji > > >>>>>>> For that that matter all species which have been described on the > > >>>>>>> basis of different holotypes would be different species, because > they will > > >>>>>>> have some differences. If we have that concept there would be no > heterotypic > > >>>>>>> synonyms and we will have more than 5 lac species of angiosperms > on this > > >>>>>>> Earth, whereas most authors agree on this number being below 3 > lacs. As I > > >>>>>>> have written earlier also Hortus Third (considered Bible for > cultivated > > >>>>>>> plants), The Plant List, now even GRIN, and numerous other > publications > > >>>>>>> treat them as synonyms, and we would be doing little service to > ignore them. > > > > >>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh > > >>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor > > >>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > > >>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > > >>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > > >>>>>>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > > > >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Mahadeswara < > [email protected]>wrote: > > > > >>>>>>>> I agree with Vijayasankar ji and H.S.ji. Both are different > > >>>>>>>> species. Both these species are available in IIT Madras > Campus > > >>>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>>> C L R I Campus, Adyar Chennai. While the M. paniculata is wild, > > >>>>>>>> M.exotica is cultivated. In photograph both the plants look > like. > > >>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I am not in Chennai now. I had the photographs of > > >>>>>>>> both. I will try to dig out from the archives in due course and > > >>>>>>>> post > > >>>>>>>> it to the group (depends on getting the photographs) > > > > >>>>>>>> On Jul 26, 6:40 am, Balkar Arya <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > Dear All > > >>>>>>>> > *Murraya paniculata* > > >>>>>>>> > *Family Rutaceae > > >>>>>>>> > * > > >>>>>>>> > *From Garden of PIET Campus Samalkha Panipat > > >>>>>>>> > *-- > > >>>>>>>> > Regards > > > > >>>>>>>> > Dr Balkar Singh > > >>>>>>>> > Head, Deptt. of Botany and Biotechnology > > >>>>>>>> > Arya P G College, Panipat > > >>>>>>>> > Haryana-132103 > > >>>>>>>> > 09416262964 > > > > >>>>>>>> > Murraya paniculata (1).JPG > > >>>>>>>> > 175KViewDownload > > > > >>>>>>>> > Murraya paniculata (2).JPG > > >>>>>>>> > 258KViewDownload > > > > >>>>>>>> > Murraya paniculata (3).JPG > > >>>>>>>> > 240KViewDownload > > > > >>>>>>>> > Murraya paniculata (4).JPG > > >>>>>>>> > 180KViewDownload > > > > >>>>>>>> > Murraya paniculata (5).JPG > > >>>>>>>> > 214KViewDownload > > > > >>>>>>>> > Murraya paniculata (6).JPG > > >>>>>>>> > 186KViewDownload > > > > >>>>>>>> > Murraya paniculata (7).JPG > > >>>>>>>> > 201KViewDownload > > > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>>> - H.S. > > > > >>>>>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere > > >>>>>> heart of stone > > > > >>> -- > > >>> - H.S. > > > > >>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere > heart > > >>> of stone > > > > -- > > - H.S. > > > > A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart > of > > stone >
