Satish ji The whole problem in this thread is because where there are four leaflets (two pairs) you are counting them as two leaflets, and where they are eight (4 pairs) you count them as 4. I had doubt about this after seeing Giby ji's photographs, but your upload now confirms it.
-- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Satish Phadke <[email protected]> wrote: > Agreed Gurcharan ji > We and Science (I mean Scientific community) require many more people with > similar mind as yours.Nothing should be taken for granted unless one > personally checks and satisfied about it. > I am ready to check the plant further. You have a valid point there. > I have not gone in details of the paper but will do so. > Regarding my plant.....I want to stress that There are quite a few plants > (So called Cassia uniflora ;attaching a picture) with similar looking > flowers and leaves. Some plants in the group are very small(^inches or so) > producing flowers and leaves very similar to these but only with two twigs > having two pairs of leaflets as in earlier posted picture. Can't a plant > have less number of leaflets? The pods are also seen in some which might be > helpful. > > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Yes Giby ji >> Your plant has clearly four pairs of leaflets. This is what I have been >> stressing all through. >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Dear Giby ji >>> I think you have gone through the paper for which I have sent the link. >>> When we are considering the introduced species we should rely more on the >>> Books pertaining to that area and not local floras. If you have gone through >>> the cited paper you will realize that key in the genus is often based on >>> number of leaflets as one character (besides others). This plant as Satish >>> ji has mentioned and seen in the photograph has only four leaflets, and >>> Satish ji has seen some with only two leaflets. How can we believe an >>> introduced weed which is supposed to have generally 4 pairs of leaflets (3-5 >>> pairs) can have only 2-4 leaflets in our area, Please give serious thought >>> to it. I am attaching the paper in case you did not read it. >>> >>> And yes if I am providing you the detailed nomenclature I must be knowing >>> all its synonyms including C. sericea,, >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> Retired Associate Professor >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Giby Kuriakose < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Gurcharan ji, >>>> >>>> *Senna uniflora* (Mill.) H.S.Irwin & Barne has several synonyms as per >>>> the plant list (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/ild-21536) and >>>> *Cassia >>>> sericea* is one among them. >>>> * >>>> * >>>> *C. sericea *has been mentioned in several flora books such as Flora of >>>> Coorg (Murthy & Yoganarasimhan, 1990), Flora of Udupi (Bhat, 2003) >>>> etc. >>>> >>>> I too got this plant recently and photographed in detail from Bangalore. >>>> I shall upload them soon. I have identified my *specimen *by running >>>> the key as *C. sericea *and while checking the name in the plant list I >>>> found that this is *S. uniflora* now. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Giby >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 27 October 2011 14:50, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sorry Satish ji >>>>> Some mix up in formatting earlier. here is correct form >>>>> >>>>> Dear Satish ji >>>>> Thanks for your conclusion, but I would like you to consider a few >>>>> things before taking a final decision. >>>>> I have not seen this plant in nature myself but judging from the >>>>> available information, I fear it never has 4 leaflets, not to say of 2 >>>>> leaflets that you write. >>>>> Senna uniflora is an American weed, and only recently introduced in >>>>> India (Not reported in FBI), and we can't expect it to undergo drastic >>>>> changes in India over a short period of time. >>>>> From all sources of information the species usually has 4 pairs of >>>>> leaflets (and not 4 leaflets) though the number may varry from 3-5 pairs. >>>>> Some identifications get fixed in mind and difficult to forget. My >>>>> colleagues would fight with me when I would tell them spinach they are >>>>> using >>>>> in their practicals is not Spinaceae oleracea, rather leafy vegetable a >>>>> variety of Beta vulgaris. It took me more than 10 years to make them >>>>> understand when they gave this plant in taxonomy classes. The description >>>>> of >>>>> two is poles apart. >>>>> >>>>> I request you to kindly go through the attached paper, study the plants >>>>> and then decide. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/6352/1/NPR%208(5)%20525-527.pdf<http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/6352/1/NPR%208%285%29%20525-527.pdf> >>>>> >>>>> I am not saying that this is Senna absus, but just for infrmation S. >>>>> absus is a species long established in India, has four leaflets and also a >>>>> gland between the leaflets. >>>>> >>>>> Senna unflora has been introduced in in many places in India including >>>>> Pune, Karanataka and other places, and you and other members may soon find >>>>> specimens with true S. uniflora characters. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Gurcharan Singh >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Satish ji >>>>>> Thanks for your conclusion, but I would like you to consider a few >>>>>> things before taking a final decision. >>>>>> I have not seen this plant in nature myself but judging from the >>>>>> available information, I fear it never has 4 leaflets, not to say of 2 >>>>>> leaflets that you write. >>>>>> Senna uniflora is an American weed, and only recently introduced in >>>>>> India (Not reported in FBI), and we can't expect it to undergo drastic >>>>>> changes in India over a short period of time. >>>>>> From all sources of information the species usually has 4 pairs of >>>>>> leaflets (and not 4 leaflets) though the number may varry from 3-5 pairs. >>>>>> Some identifications get fixed in mind and difficult to forget. My >>>>>> colleagues would fight with me when I would tell them spinach they are >>>>>> using >>>>>> in their practicals is not Spinaceae oleracea, rather leafy vegetable a >>>>>> variety of Beta vulgaris. It took me more than 10 years to make them >>>>>> understand when they gave this plant in taxonomy classes. The >>>>>> description of >>>>>> two is poles apart. >>>>>> >>>>>> I request you to kindly go through the attached paper, study the >>>>>> plants and then decide. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/6352/1/NPR%208(5)%20525-527.pdf<http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/6352/1/NPR%208%285%29%20525-527.pdf> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>> I am not saying that this is Senna absus, but just for infrmation S. >>>>>> absus is a species long established in India, has four leaflets and also >>>>>> a >>>>>> gland between the leaflets. >>>>>> >>>>>> Senna unflora has been introduced in in many places in India including >>>>>> Pune, Karanataka and other places, and you and other members may soon >>>>>> find >>>>>> specimens with true S. uniflora characters. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Satish Phadke >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes I remember Aparna Watve ji had told me about the commonest >>>>>>> similar looking plant without glands is Cassia tora. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Giby Kuriakose < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes this is *Cassia uniflora** *now known as *Senna* *uniflora* (Mill.) >>>>>>>> H.S.Irwin & Barneby. >>>>>>>> If you check the compound leaves carefully, you can see the stalked >>>>>>>> yellow glands on the rachis in between leaflets (mostly with basal 1-2 >>>>>>>> pairs). If they (stalked yellow glands) are not there in any of the >>>>>>>> leaves >>>>>>>> this can be some other species. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Giby >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 27 October 2011 12:49, Satish Phadke <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I rechecked about similar plants in the vicinity. >>>>>>>>> I agree with Rajdeo singh ji >>>>>>>>> This appears to be a small plant of *Cassia uniflora* only. >>>>>>>>> Similar small plants were showing two leflets each but the >>>>>>>>> characters of leaves appear close to *C.uniflora* rather than * >>>>>>>>> C.absus*. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Satish Phadke < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am keeping a watch on the interesting discussion and learning >>>>>>>>>> through this. >>>>>>>>>> All comments are welcome. >>>>>>>>>> There were several plants in the area all about 6 inches or so >>>>>>>>>> tall They had two pairs of leaflets each.......prompting me about the >>>>>>>>>> identity of *S.absus* >>>>>>>>>> If I happen to visit the area again I will try to extract some >>>>>>>>>> more characters. Would any one like to suggest to check for some >>>>>>>>>> specific >>>>>>>>>> character Pl. let me know. >>>>>>>>>> Thanks and Regards. >>>>>>>>>> Dr Phadke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 5:05 PM, H S <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cassia absus never come in Single flower >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Friends >>>>>>>>>>>> To me it again appears to be a case where we are discussing the >>>>>>>>>>>> identity of a plant without considering authority. >>>>>>>>>>>> It also highlights the fact that many of us give our decisions >>>>>>>>>>>> without trying to justify our decision or negate others' conclusion >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Let me first point out that there is no accepted name such as >>>>>>>>>>>> Chamaecrista uniflora, nor any accepted species name Cassia >>>>>>>>>>>> uniflora >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now coming back to Cassia uniflora, there are two taxa by that >>>>>>>>>>>> name >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Cassia uniflora Mill., characterised by 5-9 leaflets, flowers >>>>>>>>>>>> 2-6 together. This is now correctly known as >>>>>>>>>>>> *Senna* *uniflora* (Mill.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby >>>>>>>>>>>> http://achutha.net/WeedWatch.html >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Senna uniflora Spreng., a very distinct plant with four >>>>>>>>>>>> leaflets arranged like a cross and with single flower. this is now >>>>>>>>>>>> correctly >>>>>>>>>>>> known as >>>>>>>>>>>> *Chamaecrista* *ramosa* (Vogel) H.S.Irwin & Barneby >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://floredeguyane.piwigo.com/index?/category/28-chamaecrista_ramosa >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think Vijayasankar ji is correct in saying that Senna uniflora >>>>>>>>>>>> is the plant already discussed on our website for which he has >>>>>>>>>>>> provided the >>>>>>>>>>>> link. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And till we find a better choice, the best match is still Cassia >>>>>>>>>>>> absus L. now correctly known as >>>>>>>>>>>> *Chamaecrista* *absus* (L.) H.S.Irwin & Barneby >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:54 PM, H S <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> all are C. uniflora >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Vijayasankar < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Agree with Rajdeo ji, it is not Cassia absus. If it is C. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> uniflora, then the correct genus is Senna (S. uniflora), but to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't look like S. uniflora either. Pl c this link >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/669102a1420b541f?fwc=1&hl=en >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vijayasankar Raman >>>>>>>>>>>>>> National Center for Natural Products Research >>>>>>>>>>>>>> University of Mississippi >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 6:37 AM, H S <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Correct genus for this plant is Chamaecrista >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:19 AM, rajdeo singh < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Satish ji, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is not Cassia absus, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its Cassia uniflora. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *** >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rajdeo Singh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Project fellow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> St. Xavier's College, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mumbai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - H.S. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mere heart of stone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> - H.S. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a >>>>>>>>>>>>> mere heart of stone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> - H.S. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere >>>>>>>>>>> heart of stone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Dr Satish Phadke >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dr Satish Phadke >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> GIBY KURIAKOSE PhD >>>>>>>> Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE), >>>>>>>> Royal Enclave, >>>>>>>> Jakkur Post, Srirampura >>>>>>>> Bangalore- 560064 >>>>>>>> India >>>>>>>> Phone - +91 9448714856 (Mobile) >>>>>>>> visit my pictures @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/giby >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dr Satish Phadke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> GIBY KURIAKOSE PhD >>>> Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE), >>>> Royal Enclave, >>>> Jakkur Post, Srirampura >>>> Bangalore- 560064 >>>> India >>>> Phone - +91 9448714856 (Mobile) >>>> visit my pictures @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/giby >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > Dr Satish Phadke >
