Like Greg, I really liked Andrew's concluding paragraphs on prayer. However I had trouble with his assertion that God doesn't know how things are going to turn out. Many years ago I was blessed to have a minister who taught that eternity is, [like the Kingdom?] a dimension that surrounds us, eternally present, and passing from time to eternity is like going through a door [Christ??]. From a human perspective, this is almost impossible to contemplate, but it is similar to the teaching of JI Packer on the sovereignty of God, and makes the role of prayer more comprehensible. Sue
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:54:48 +1000, Greg Crawford wrote: >>Andrew Dutney addressed this issue well at last year's May McLeod >>memorial lecture (at UTC in Sydney). >>http://nsw.uca.org.au/boe/resources/maymacleod2003.htm >> >>Worth a read! > >Yes, well worth a read. Andrew appears to argue that God is an influencing >rather than controlling power. Our faith is that this influence shall ultimately >triumph. Moreover this influence is not just over human nature, but Nature per >se. > >Andrew's conclusion appears to be: > >"It continues to be proper to pray for such things as rain, healing and peace; >but to do so in cooperation with the Spirit of God already dynamically present >as the power within the earth for fruitfulness, within the body for wholeness, >and within human communities for peace." > >However, right at the end it is unclear whether Andrew is sticking with this >notion. For he quotes Karl Barth: > >"For Barth, prayer isn't an exercise in self-improvement but a turning to God >for whatever we need. Indeed, he insisted that true prayer is essentially >petition; asking God for things; everything from the coming of the kingdom to >daily bread." > >".empty hands are necessary when human hands are to be spread out before God and >filled by Him. It is these empty hands that God in His goodness wills of us when >he bids us pray to Him. 18" > >"Prayer - asking God for things - expresses the true relation between human >beings and God. It is the action of faith." > >While Andrew has contrasted Barth's notion with that of an exercise in >self-improvement, he hasn't really related it to the notion of prayer as >cooperation with God as influencing power. > >- Greg > > > >------------------------------------------------------ >- You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] >- To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe >insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) >See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm >------------------------------------------------------ Sue Bolton Sydney, Australia ------------------------------------------------------ - You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm ------------------------------------------------------
