Hi Jerry at al,

Oh, my.

It has been about 4-6 years ago when someone [probably Ren (Marinus)]
has mentioned either to me in our private correspondence or possibly
even in a Keely net post that he has come across rumors that diesel
engines beyond polar circle sometimes refuse to die when the fuel is
shut off merrilly diesling on.

It has nagged at me for all that time and yet I have failed to connect
the obvius (at least for me and now) the working of the Joe's Cell and
the dieseling of the diesel engines as rumoured.

I would suspect that water mist comes in ice crystals in wery cold
temperatures and gets into the air intake amd right into the cylinders
before it has a chance to evaporate. 

1) Water forsage is known technology for cutting down on fuel
consumption in gasoline engines (10 - 20%). 

a] it cools down the combustion and causes the fuel to burn more slowly
and more completely (anti-detonator / emission tests confirm that)

b) water also evaporates and boost the pressure in the cylinder
increasing the power and therefore the milage.  

Even misty weather conditions show this effect.

Of course the gasoline engine has nowhere the compression ratio of a
diesel and water forsage can only enhance the gasoline performance. U
still need fuell. 

On the other hand, diesel does have the compression ratio to create
momentary tempertature under the cylinder head near Top Dead Center.
This of course should flash evaporate any liquid (or iced) spray present
in the air in the combustion chamber. So, the stage 1,  the flash
evaporation at TDC of compression in a diesel engine is quite

The question is what happens at the stage two, when the piston goes down
and when the water vapor content of the cylinder should theoreticaly
"flash" condense. Here comes the beauty of what water does and does not
do. Water has no tendency to readilly condese even when the temperature
is dramaticaly decreasing. It will condense fairly fast if there is some
liquid water pressent as a "seed" of condensation, or if there is some
chemical compound which would precipitate vapour condensation (like the
silver whatever used in experimental cloud seeding). But even so, it
will do it relatively slowly as the water wapor molecules have to come
into contact with that seeding. Vapour will stay vapor even at and below
ambient as long as the moisture content is below the dew point ratio.
[Which is exactly the reason why dew grows on the gras leaves and does
not come as rain] 

Since the diesel engine is lubricated by oil, which of course is not an
agent to be readilly wetted by water, the condensation of water vapor at
stage two of the engine stroke is not likely to take place all that fast
inside the cylinder. Definitely not anywhere near the time the piston
bottoms out.

All in all, I am convinced that Vasily has an excellent proposition.

The problem I can see though is a substantial cooling of the engine in
operation. After all, as the water vapor leaves the engine, it carries
away a lot of latent heat locked in it, because it did not condense back
into liquid within the engine. Then you will either end up having to
heat the engine by some outside means (probably through the radiator and
the cooling system from the ambient air), or allow the exhaust vapor to
condense, lets say within the cooling system itself, in order to return
the latent heat back to the engine, or both. 

The engine will still use up energy, but it will (if it should really
work and my take is that it would) come from the environment.

Next problem to be solved is actually delivering the liquid water into
the cylinders. I am quite certain that the fuel injection pump and
injectors themselves will not take kindly to having to handle water
instead of the diesel fuel. It would appear more sensible to install a
carb onto the intake manifold ar inlet and run the water through the
carb. This would actually allow for "dual" fuel system, possibly using
diesel oil for a startup and the water for the run, may be even a
combination of both.

The carb on the intake would be a non invasive add upon and relatively
easy to test for a handy fellow, without the risk of compromising a good
fuel injection system in case the whole idea is vhacko.(G) 

If anyone were to give it a shot, I can supply what I sell as an air
dryer (I would have to slightly modify it) for recondensation and
recapturing of the latent heat from the engine exhaust to be fed back
into the cooling system. It would work just dandy as it condenses vapor
into liquid water and separates it from an air stream on the run.

My kind regards, Slavek

Jerry Decker - KN wrote:
> Hola Vasily et al!
> I am posting this to our list to see if there is any feedback, thanks!
> http://www.mail-archive.com/interact%40listserv.capital-master.com/maillist.html
> Vasily Bezukladnikov wrote:
> > - In diesel the air (in following cycles in the cylinder instead of
> > air will be already the steam) heat up by compression to 800 *C.
> > Injected water at first will cool hot air, which will be compressed
> > from cooling by cool water, it will facilitate the further squeeze of
> > air by piston. At diminishing of temperature on one degree of Celsius
> > any gas decreases on 1/273 part of volume. The water warms up from
> > hot jammed air, but pressing of environment of the cylinder hampers a
> > boiling of water, though already at temperature 372 *C all water
> > accepts a gaseous phase independently from the further growth of
> > pressure.
> >
> > Pressure, p (Atm.)    0       1       2       3       4       5       6     
> >   7       8       9       10      11      ...     100     218 Water
> > boiling-point, t (C*) -       100     119     132     141     150     157   
> >   163     168     173     178     182
> > ...   310     372
> >
> > Analyzing temperature of entered water and the speed of rotation of
> > crankshaft and the load, the electronics should regulate the
> > injection time, the quantity and the size of droplets of sprayed
> > water so that water boiled only after passage by the piston of the
> > top dead center. The water, at the boiling or steam exhalation,
> > increases the volume in 1673 times, than helps compressed air to push
> > the piston. During a working stroke in cylinder, falls the pressure
> > of gases, from it the all super-heated water do boil as explosion and
> > gives an accumulated surplus energy to compressed steam for pushing
> > the piston. Besides, the explosion do the shock wave, which by the
> > strongest heating of gas can instantly ignite various subjects, and
> > which with supersonic speed having repeatedly a reflect from the
> > piston and surface of cylinder, does the essential heating of the
> > formerly compressed steam. In moment of bottom dead center the
> > electronics through the small outlet valve issues only surpluses of
> > air (of steam) into a radiator for repeated using of condensation
> > water. In the beginning of new compression, when in the cylinder
> > impedes injection almost minimal pressure, the water enters and
> > stimulates cooling, condensation and compression of steam in
> > cylinder.
> >
> >
> > Excuse bad translation from Russian
> >
> --
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