On 11 November 2012 14:00, EBo <e...@sandien.com> wrote:
> On Nov 11 2012 3:34 AM, Morten Omholt Alver wrote:
> > On 11 November 2012 03:25, EBo <e...@sandien.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Nov 10 2012 3:33 PM, Morten Omholt Alver wrote:
> >> > On 10 November 2012 21:37, EBo <e...@sandien.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >> While running, I get the exact same behavior with using [key:auth]
> >> (ie.
> >> if the key does not exist, then write nothing in the field - not
> >> even
> >> the available author). Looking at the documentation I had that back
> >> to
> >> front and is not the way to accomplish what I was hoping to do. As
> >> a
> >> note, the "key" entry was developed to replace the editor/author
> >> when
> >> none exist.
> >>
> >
> > Unless there's been a development I've missed, when using [key:auth]
> > it
> > will look for a field named "key". Is it the BibTeX key you want?
> > Since the
> > point of the exercise is to generate the BibTeX key, I can't see any
> > reason
> > referring that here. If you want to avoid overwriting existing keys,
> > JabRef
> > has mechanisms for giving warning or refusing to do that, I don't
> > think
> > it's possible to do it through the choice of key pattern.
>
> According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BibTeX
>
> key: A hidden field used for specifying or overriding the
> alphabetical order of entries (when the "author" and "editor" fields are
> missing). Note that this is very different from the key (mentioned just
> after this list) that is used to cite or cross-reference the entry.
>
> I have been using this in the past, and an [auth:key] works ok. I was
> just trying to use it for something inappropriate.
>
Ok, I didn't know about this key field.
>
> >> What I need in a couple of instances is to completely overwrite the
> >> citation key when it generates something that is non-intuitive (like
> >> in
> >> the case of citing the original authors whose names are written in
> >> Devanāgarī.
> >
> > I must admit I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish.
> > Perhaps
> > it would be easier if you gave a specific example of an entry, and
> > what you
> > want to achive, compared to what actually happens.
>
> OK. In order to get the reference to typeset correctly according to
> published guidelines I ended up having the author defined as:
>
> author = {{M\={a}nikyadeva S\={u}ri, fl. 1268--1327}},
> year = {1986}, <= translated into English
> translator = {Sikdar, J.C.}
>
> This generates the key M=anikyadevaS=urifl.12681327:1986:RRS. What I
> was hoping for is some way to overwrite either the author specific field
> or the whole key that is generated. Is there some way to use one field
> if defined and stop there -- similar to [year:(unknown)] ?
>
Ok, the main problem I see here is that the = sign should be filtered out
from the generated key - we want the key generator to always generate valid
keys. I will add a check for this.
Regarding conditional markers, there is such mechanism, so you'll need to
either include the author part or to omit it.
> Also, the actual bibtex citation has always been problematical:
>
> The date of original publication is unknown, but the author is known
> to have lived (or flourished) between 1268 and 1327. But as far as I
> know, there is no flourish field in BibTeX, and to get it to format
> correctly I added to the name.
>
> It has been a decade since I got my hands on a copy (there is only
> ~10 copies of the translation in North America), and I spent a few days
> just trying to figure out if Manikyadeva or Suri is the surname. In the
> 1200's in the interior of India it was rather inconclusive.
>
> BibTeX does not always deal gracefully with unicode characters (let
> alone Devanāgarī) That is why I am half tempted to look into Biber
> <http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/>
>
> Anyway, if you can point me to BibTeX exemplars that have similar
> issues so I can study how it is best handled, I would be glad to study
> them.
>
> You know, the more I think about this I realize that I am spending days
> trying to sort out issues with a couple of citations. I think I will
> quit wasting time on this and move on...
>
In my experience you can get LaTeX/BibTeX to play fine with UTF-8
formatting, thus removing the need for those TeX-specific character
sequences. Regarding the specific needs posed by the texts you are
referring to, there may be some challenges getting everything the way you
want it with BibTeX.
> It is missing a method which comes from the JGoodies Forms library.
> This is
> a compile-time and runtime dependency, and you wouldn't be able to
> compile
> without it. If you're using a Gentoo ebuild, you'll need to take this
> up
> with the ebuild maintainer, since it's a problem with your build/run
> infrastructure and not with the JabRef code as such.
Ahhh... You must be using some functionality added since
> jgoodies-forms-1.3.0 (which is the latest version I can find anywhere
> supported on Gentoo). I am not sure I really want to start supporting
> experimental ebuilds for jgoodies-forms-1.6+
>
> We use Forms 1.5.1, and yes, I believe this error is related to a class or
method that was introduced in between there.
> > Alternatively, you could download a jar file or a source package from
> > our
> > site, and use that, since it comes complete with all dependencies.
>
> The ebuild for 2.9_beta is one that I hacked from one I found for
> 2.8.1, so I'm likely the one that will have to figure this out. Also, I
> am already downloading and building from the source tarball
> JabRef-2.9b-src.tar.bz2 from the JabRef site.
>
Using our packages you can build it with dependencies included and not have
to worry about wrong library versions. But I guess you want to make an
ebuild to share with the Gentoo community, and in that case I really don't
have the knowledge to help you out.
--
Morten
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