Matt Welsh wrote:
> I usually can't stand flame bait like this but I wanted to point out one
> thing.
>
> Sun has clearly recognized some of the advantages of the Open Source model,
> which is the entire reason why they have adopted the 'Sun Community Source
> License' for a large number of their products -- including the JDK.
>
> This link is the paper 'Sun Community Source License Principles' which does
> a fair job at explaining the motivation behind the license:
> http://www.sun.com/981208/scsl/principles.html
> It would behoove one to familiarize oneself with this before ranting on
> about everything Sun is doing wrong -- there is a lot they're doing right,
> too.
>
> Sun is very concerned with the potential 'splintering' of Java
> standarization efforts. The idea is that if many offshoots of Java are
> propagated, this seriously weakens the overall adaptation of Java technology
> and would become a weak spot in Sun's desire to make Java a universal
> standard -- thereby allowing stronger market forces (such as Microsoft) to
> essentially destroy Java once and for all. I think we can all agree that
> this would be a Bad Thing.
Well take a good look at some of the interesting research surrounding Kaffe
I just download a complete Java OS based on Kaffe. Plus there are other very
interesting projects ongoing.
This has not weakened STANDARD Kaffe in the least.
What I have suggest to Sun is they provide the standard implementation and a
clearing house for
Research implementations. They certainly have made several mistakes in the
standard implementation.
The lack of a Process concept and System.out plus no way to kill a thread and
reclaim its monitors...
People who side with Sun confuse these issues repeatedly. There are three basic
situations.
1.) The STANDARD Java
2.) Porting the STANDARD to a new platform.
3.) Creating new Java non commercial non standard implementations which
investigate some new OS feature or Java extension.
Sun need only require that the research implementations be marked as such and
that they are Open Source.
Sun understands the difference between standards, porting and research. Only
by confusing these issues
does Suns stance look reasonable. And Sun does so routinely to support there
position.
I don't think anyone feels that not having a STANDARD Java is a good thing but
that doesn't mean you ignore other issues.
Sun's approach to java reminds me of the military saying where they destroy a
village to save it.
Well the SCL doesn't even let the village begin.
>
>
> So, there is a clear tension between the desire to make Java truly Open
> Source and the desire to prevent it from fragmenting to the point where its
> market penetration is weakened. Clearly, as supporters of Java, we should be
> supportive of both goals. Otherwise it will be all too easy for someone else
> to come along with a "Java killer" which ends up dominating the market in
> its place.
See above its Sun FUD that this is the case. Its a simple matter of licensing.
The problem is Sun severely restricts the distribution of the porting and
research implementations.
The very ones which should be widely accessible, free and open to interested
parties.
This sort of thing can easily be handled if Sun worked with people to ensure
that non-standard JVM's
are open source. The GPL is famous for its viral like nature Sun could require
such a license for any non standard VM.
And if per chance people really really like some feature of a non-standard
VM then request it be made part of the standard.
It's not that hard.
Sun is trying to prevent any hint of non standard implementation via a scorched
earth policy.
It funny how closely Java relates to the vietnam war. Sun the big stupid
americans and us the poor little viet-cong
fighting a guerilla war. Well we know who won that one. What is interesting is
it took twenty years for america to lose the vietnam war.
It took twenty years for Linux to finally open up Unix.
It will be very close to twenty years before Linux completely destroys
Microsoft.
Do you want to wait twenty years for Java ?
>
>
> So, give Sun a little slack. They are making an honest effort to do the
> right thing. It is far more constructive to work within the framework which
> they are trying to build, and to provide useful feedback on that framework,
> than simply "jumping ship" on Sun altogether. That approach can't do anything
> good for Java in the long run.
>
Why ??
At the very least set aside one person at Sun to handle our issues.
I would very much like to see someone support Suns current position from the
viewpoint that
Sun must provide a way for open research to be done on the VM and allow porting
efforts to adopt the best
development strategy to make the best VM for a given platform and finally how
this relates to Java standardization.
They have been very very accommodating to commercial entities porting issues
allowing them to keep any improvements they make.
To the detriment of the Java platform. Would it not be better for Java if the
IBM and Hotspot teams were working together ??
They have done very very little for the porting needs of the open source
community.
If Sun ignored the needs of everybody then I'd give them a bit of slack but they
don't.
One you resolve the research and porting issues. Then the issue of a Java
standard becomes a no brainer.
Until I see that then there I have very little "slack" for sun.
Give me one email address !!!!
Mike
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