>You'll not see J3D on a console anytime soon, there just isn't the
>memory to run it. So you won't see the big buck companies developing in
>J3D either. The handheld micro Java devices might help there when a
>J3Dme gets released.
Memory is so cheap, and is getting cheaper all the time, so I don't this as a long term issue. In fact that's part of the reason we see bloatware getting worse all the time. Memory is really no longer an issue for developers (and in so many cases, neither is writing clean, optimal code).
$100/GB for PC100 memory. Look at what GC, XBox, PS/2 do with <=64MB. Then look at EverQuest: Shadows of Luclin, that takes 512MB for all features, and still looks and runs like a 1998 game, even on a top-end system. Console developers have learned to eek every bit of power they can out of the hardware, and you have to respect them for that.
I'm sure another 128MB of RAM would be enough to handle the Java/Java3D overhead, and would cost about $8. And that's with and off-the-shelf VM. Couldn't tighter VM and J3D implementation be built? Java *is* intended to run on embedded system, no? I still think Java and J3D might have a place there.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 8:22 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] is java good for game development?
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/06/2002 12:54:25 >>>
> I think MGS2 impressed me much more than any screen from Q3. Okay
they
> have dynamic shadows? So what? Shadow algorithmen are over 20 years
old.
I agree MetalGearSolid2 does look very good, the attention to detail
does stand out above most PC based games. That's always been the
consoles edge, having low res and standard hardware has allowed more dev
time on the little things and many very high quality visuals.
This is part of the problem, console developers certainly produce some
the best quality games out there and that is where the big bucks are.
But a good PC has 5x the power of any console yet few PC conversions of
top games exist. A lot is politics (like any XBox game should run on a
good PC, but then MS would be competing with them selves! :) and the
rest is either differences in control methods (like the unplayable
spiderman :) or scalablilty problems (you don't have to worry how the
game scales on a console, but on a PC there's >VGA res and other
processes to worry about. Like GFA3 once you get to 2nd island, turns
slow and jerky on a P3-1Ghz,512MB, GF3 PC. :)
You'll not see J3D on a console anytime soon, there just isn't the
memory to run it. So you won't see the big buck companies developing in
J3D either. The handheld micro Java devices might help there when a
J3Dme gets released.
> Well IIRC Quake3 came 99. And still even games coming out
> now or in a few months still use the Q3-engine. So where's your
problem?
Maybe that I'm not aware of anyone making a J3D game *today* that has
Q3 engine abilities and runs okay on the same hardware. Okay in a years
time when everyone has Ghz processor, 256mb ram and GF3 as standard
it'll be a reality, but not just yet (and then Doom3 engine will be
spawning new games).
There's certainly some jaw dropping simulators out there at the moment,
few of them using ground breaking technics, but they do have horse power
that the humble PC owner couldn't even dream of yet.
> Not really. For example the Shrek-character was 10x the polygon count
as
> the characters in Doom3. So raw polygon-rasterization-burning is
definitly
> not the right way. I think transfering raytracing-technology to gfx
> hardware might be the real way to get cinema-feeling to games.
Again I agree there, raytracing like features in hardware would
certainly go along way to providing real world graphics, current polygon
racing advancements haven't done much to remove the 2D feel of
PC/console graphics. Movement capture has probably helped more!
> Look at PS3. Of the latest plans of Sony. PS3 won't have any storage
media
> installed but rather use highband-internet-connection as storage.
Not sure I agree with Sony on this, consoles have never been internet
dependant and are only just starting to utilise online gaming
advantages. I think they'd at least add a memoryStick slot like every
other Sony gadget. :)
Jason.
PS I've realised now that I've completely lost the plot in this thread,
so excuse my random ramblings above and I shall desist in trying to
continue what ever points I might have been trying to get across. :)
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