Security (as much as we techies care about it) has zero relevance to the health of desktop Java. Java's security model is at least, indisputably much better than that of any non-managed language (i.e. better than zero), and I never heard anyone claiming that C/C++ are dead/dying because of security.
Java does not need a killer app, or even a handful of killer apps - hoping that a few incredibly-popular apps would boost the platform is the wrong kind of hope to have; the whole concept of killer app is wrong IMO... what could a killer app buy us? We already have quasi- ubiquitous JRE deployment, and we already have massive developer adoption; so we just don't need the main benefits that "killer apps" promise to new languages/platforms. We already got that, and it's not enough... What desktop Java needs is killer capabilities. It must gain the functionality and/or performance that it has always missed for general client-side success. Google actually managed to pull this out with Android; now Android is not JavaSE, but it is Java (or close enough), and it shows that the solution for client Java requires breaking a little with the past and dropping significant amount of legacy crap (including 100% of its traditional UI-related libraries). It also shows that the hope to make Java successful for clients by fixing its clunkier bits is not wishful thinking, that plan has succeeded wonderfully for Android. Now you know where I'm heading to: Sun/Oracle's plan to revive desktop Java with JavaFX. It's basically the same recipe as Android's, with massive replacement of legacy where necessary, and also significant work in the runtime (including abandon of "pure Java" religion; just like Android's frameworks, JavaFX includes tons of native code, and it has a much saner approach to multiplatform support and evolution). I don't claim that the plan will work, only time will tell as we are still waiting for the de-facto v1.0 release. I'm only saying that (on the technical side) JavaFX 2.0 already does all the right moves; if this doesn't work, nothing will, so the debate about a possible rebirth of desktop Java will be over in one way or another. A+ Osvaldo On Jul 24, 7:58 am, Ricky Clarkson <[email protected]> wrote: > > However, as already mentioned in this thread, one could argue why to > > bother with desktop? Since it is dying anyway and development is > > moving toward web and mobile platforms. > > It's only dying because there's no security model protecting your data > from a rogue program you install. If and when the OSs fix that we can > drop JavaScript on its head like we tried to do >10 years ago. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Igor Khotin <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi > > > Vuze bittorrent client could be considered as a popular Java app. > > > Some Java games: > > Minecraft > > Tribe Trouble > > RunScape - is one of the most popular free to play MMOs > > Three Rings use Java for number of their MMOs - Spiral Knights, Puzzle > > Pirates, Bang! Howdy... > > > RunScape, Minecraft, Vuze probably could be considered as killer apps, > > but I don't think they would make any difference on the desktop. The > > problem is not with functional capabilities, but with attitude of > > desktop/game developers. Game development is a quite conservative > > business and still C++ dominated. Recently C# is getting into the > > picture with XNA. Java would need some rich framework like XNA + a lot > > of marketing/evangelism to penetrate into the gamedev at this point. > > All we got now is JMonkey, Ardor3D, Xith3D and Slick - none of these > > could provide compete stack to simplify development (although JMonkey > > is moving in that direction). And Android shows that developers are > > willing to write client apps and games in Java if proper environment > > and support available. > > > Igor > > > On Jul 24, 5:48 am, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]> wrote: > >> A recent all-java client app that could be considered 'killer' is of course > >> Minecraft, though I rather doubt that's what you had in mind. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "The Java Posse" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
