That whooshing sound you heard? That was a point going right past you. No, java is not just C++, but the overwhelming similarities are not coincidence. They are intentional, just as the similarities in the layout of the controls of any two automobiles is intentional. And that does not mean that java is not innovative - it simply means that most of java is based on existing work, which of course it ought to be, and it makes use of established conventions, which of course it ought to do. Let's make it a little easier: Einstein's miracle year papers have bibliographies. He only made up part of that stuff - I think we can agree on that. Does this observation diminish his work?
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Oscar Hsieh <[email protected]> wrote: > Sorry, simply cannot agree with anything thing you said here. Don't want > to get into the Facebook/apple fight but if you think Java is just C++ done > right then yes, you can say Model T is just a faster horse. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 22, 2012, at 12:33 AM, Jon Kiparsky <[email protected]> wrote: > > I don't think it's minimizing someone's innovations to point out that they > rest on previous work. The fact is that Zuckerberg had a lot of R&D done > for him by friendster and myspace and orkut and so forth, which allowed him > to avoid a lot of mistakes and take a lot of ideas which had become > obvious. > The iphone, of course, was a pretty obvious move and others had already > moved on that concept. Sort of a forced move, really. Failure to combine > the ipod with a phone would have been an inexplicable blunder. Making that > move was not a stroke of genius. > And of course Java was explicitly intended to be, basically, C++ done > right. > > All of those examples are examples of innovation, sure, but they point out > how little innovation is involved in making a category leader - not how > much. You take everything that works and use it, and then you just fix a > few things. If Steve Jobs had insisted on innovating in the mePhone, in > terms of externals, it would have been a disaster. Imagine if java had not > used the C syntax so slavishly - how many potential users would they have > lost, simply because of the extra work of learning a new syntax? > > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 6:55 PM, phil swenson <[email protected]>wrote: > >> it's always easy to minimize other's innovations. >> >> iphone? there were smartphones in 2000, they just stuck a pretty UI on >> it. >> Facebook? same as friendster. >> mongodb? how is it any better than oracle? >> java? c++ dumbed down >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Fabrizio Giudici >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:26:04 +0200, Kevin Wright < >> [email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> It's therefore no surprise that people in the US are far more likely to >> >> Try asking around in China what people there consider to be >> innovative, I'd >> >> >> >> be very surprised if many people there regard Twitter in this category. >> > >> > >> > I don't live in China, still I don't consider Twitter a big >> technological >> > innovation. It's just marketing. I don't see anything that you can do >> with >> > Twitter and you couldn't do with other means, such as a RSS feed. >> > Furthermore it's a single point of failure (80 minutes of blackout >> today). >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager >> > Tidalwave s.a.s. - "We make Java work. Everywhere." >> > [email protected] >> > http://tidalwave.it - http://fabriziogiudici.it >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "Java Posse" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
