That whooshing sound ... Ok, let's not play that game. The syntax and controls are just interfaces to the technology. Yes Java and Car manufactures use the dominate/standard interface to help adoption but that does not mean the internal engine cannot be revolutionary. .
I understand your point, I just cannot agree that Facebook/apple/java are successful because they don't innovate much. Sent from my iPad On Jun 23, 2012, at 11:58 PM, Jon Kiparsky <[email protected]> wrote: > That whooshing sound you heard? That was a point going right past you. > No, java is not just C++, but the overwhelming similarities are not > coincidence. They are intentional, just as the similarities in the layout of > the controls of any two automobiles is intentional. And that does not mean > that java is not innovative - it simply means that most of java is based on > existing work, which of course it ought to be, and it makes use of > established conventions, which of course it ought to do. > Let's make it a little easier: Einstein's miracle year papers have > bibliographies. He only made up part of that stuff - I think we can agree on > that. Does this observation diminish his work? > > > > On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Oscar Hsieh <[email protected]> wrote: > Sorry, simply cannot agree with anything thing you said here. Don't want to > get into the Facebook/apple fight but if you think Java is just C++ done > right then yes, you can say Model T is just a faster horse. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 22, 2012, at 12:33 AM, Jon Kiparsky <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I don't think it's minimizing someone's innovations to point out that they >> rest on previous work. The fact is that Zuckerberg had a lot of R&D done for >> him by friendster and myspace and orkut and so forth, which allowed him to >> avoid a lot of mistakes and take a lot of ideas which had become obvious. >> The iphone, of course, was a pretty obvious move and others had already >> moved on that concept. Sort of a forced move, really. Failure to combine the >> ipod with a phone would have been an inexplicable blunder. Making that move >> was not a stroke of genius. >> And of course Java was explicitly intended to be, basically, C++ done right. >> >> All of those examples are examples of innovation, sure, but they point out >> how little innovation is involved in making a category leader - not how >> much. You take everything that works and use it, and then you just fix a few >> things. If Steve Jobs had insisted on innovating in the mePhone, in terms of >> externals, it would have been a disaster. Imagine if java had not used the C >> syntax so slavishly - how many potential users would they have lost, simply >> because of the extra work of learning a new syntax? >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 6:55 PM, phil swenson <[email protected]> wrote: >> it's always easy to minimize other's innovations. >> >> iphone? there were smartphones in 2000, they just stuck a pretty UI on it. >> Facebook? same as friendster. >> mongodb? how is it any better than oracle? >> java? c++ dumbed down >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Fabrizio Giudici >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:26:04 +0200, Kevin Wright <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> It's therefore no surprise that people in the US are far more likely to >> >> Try asking around in China what people there consider to be innovative, >> >> I'd >> >> >> >> be very surprised if many people there regard Twitter in this category. >> > >> > >> > I don't live in China, still I don't consider Twitter a big technological >> > innovation. It's just marketing. I don't see anything that you can do with >> > Twitter and you couldn't do with other means, such as a RSS feed. >> > Furthermore it's a single point of failure (80 minutes of blackout today). >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager >> > Tidalwave s.a.s. - "We make Java work. Everywhere." >> > [email protected] >> > http://tidalwave.it - http://fabriziogiudici.it >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > "Java Posse" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Java Posse" group. 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