Sorry, it's 2am and i am not sure if I made myself clear :) Use your example instead of QWERTY, if they use speech and can provide 99% accuracy, then i am sure many will switch (may be not for programmers :)
Sent from my iPad On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:00 AM, Jon Kiparsky <[email protected]> wrote: > Okay, you're right that that was uncalled for. I apologize. > > But I think it's a neat paradox that innovation is only valuable when it's > kept sharply under control. Imagine a world in which the standard input > interface for computers actually used a design which had originally been > devised to slow down the user to prevent mechanical failures. Now imagine a > computer manufacturer who decided to speed up their customers' input capacity > by re-designing that input device so that it was more efficient, and using > that re-designed input on all of their machines. What happens? > If you think the answer is anything but "utter failure", walk around your > office and count the Dvorak keyboards. > People prefer good old QWERTY, because they've learned to use it and the > benefits of switching to Dvorak just aren't that important to them - not > important enough to re-train themselves in typing. Anyone who tries to force > them to change their mind will learn that customers don't force very well. > If Gosling et al had come up with some better core syntax and built Java on > that, the uptake would have been approximately zero. Instead they innovated > on making it a safe language for production systems worked on by many hands > over long product lives, something most java programmers never notice is the > basic point of the language, and they made one of the most successful > languages ever. > (in terms of ubiquity, if nothing else) > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 12:45 AM, Oscar Hsieh <[email protected]> wrote: > That whooshing sound ... Ok, let's not play that game. > > The syntax and controls are just interfaces to the technology. Yes Java and > Car manufactures use the dominate/standard interface to help adoption but > that does not mean the internal engine cannot be revolutionary. . > > I understand your point, I just cannot agree that Facebook/apple/java are > successful because they don't innovate much. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 23, 2012, at 11:58 PM, Jon Kiparsky <[email protected]> wrote: > >> That whooshing sound you heard? That was a point going right past you. >> No, java is not just C++, but the overwhelming similarities are not >> coincidence. They are intentional, just as the similarities in the layout of >> the controls of any two automobiles is intentional. And that does not mean >> that java is not innovative - it simply means that most of java is based on >> existing work, which of course it ought to be, and it makes use of >> established conventions, which of course it ought to do. >> Let's make it a little easier: Einstein's miracle year papers have >> bibliographies. He only made up part of that stuff - I think we can agree on >> that. Does this observation diminish his work? >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Oscar Hsieh <[email protected]> wrote: >> Sorry, simply cannot agree with anything thing you said here. Don't want to >> get into the Facebook/apple fight but if you think Java is just C++ done >> right then yes, you can say Model T is just a faster horse. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jun 22, 2012, at 12:33 AM, Jon Kiparsky <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I don't think it's minimizing someone's innovations to point out that they >>> rest on previous work. The fact is that Zuckerberg had a lot of R&D done >>> for him by friendster and myspace and orkut and so forth, which allowed him >>> to avoid a lot of mistakes and take a lot of ideas which had become >>> obvious. >>> The iphone, of course, was a pretty obvious move and others had already >>> moved on that concept. Sort of a forced move, really. Failure to combine >>> the ipod with a phone would have been an inexplicable blunder. Making that >>> move was not a stroke of genius. >>> And of course Java was explicitly intended to be, basically, C++ done >>> right. >>> >>> All of those examples are examples of innovation, sure, but they point out >>> how little innovation is involved in making a category leader - not how >>> much. You take everything that works and use it, and then you just fix a >>> few things. If Steve Jobs had insisted on innovating in the mePhone, in >>> terms of externals, it would have been a disaster. Imagine if java had not >>> used the C syntax so slavishly - how many potential users would they have >>> lost, simply because of the extra work of learning a new syntax? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 6:55 PM, phil swenson <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> it's always easy to minimize other's innovations. >>> >>> iphone? there were smartphones in 2000, they just stuck a pretty UI on it. >>> Facebook? same as friendster. >>> mongodb? how is it any better than oracle? >>> java? c++ dumbed down >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Fabrizio Giudici >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:26:04 +0200, Kevin Wright >>> > <[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> It's therefore no surprise that people in the US are far more likely to >>> >> Try asking around in China what people there consider to be innovative, >>> >> I'd >>> >> >>> >> be very surprised if many people there regard Twitter in this category. >>> > >>> > >>> > I don't live in China, still I don't consider Twitter a big technological >>> > innovation. It's just marketing. I don't see anything that you can do with >>> > Twitter and you couldn't do with other means, such as a RSS feed. >>> > Furthermore it's a single point of failure (80 minutes of blackout today). >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager >>> > Tidalwave s.a.s. - "We make Java work. Everywhere." >>> > [email protected] >>> > http://tidalwave.it - http://fabriziogiudici.it >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> > "Java Posse" group. >>> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> > [email protected]. >>> > For more options, visit this group at >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Java Posse" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Java Posse" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Java Posse" group. 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