Jason, > The problem with writing build components in Java is that the maintenece > process is slow and difficult, and only a select few can currently perform > this.
Not sure by what you mean re: maitennance. If you're talking about reading the code, I think that it's going to be easier for Joe JBoss Developer to read well-written Java code than it would be to read JavaScript, ANT XML, or some other language. We already know Java :) > Perhaps if the build components were made into a included module this would > different... I am undescided as of yet to which is > better/easier/simpiler/faster. Again, I'm new, so I don't know what an "included module" is... The build process in the compiled-build-system approach can be quite simple. The way the it works, is that you bootstrap your build system. Write a snippet of ANT XML that builds the build system ( < 50 lines). Then run the build system like any other Java application. The thing that makes ant useful is the platform independence and API, and not the XML format, IMO. What do you gain with a scripting language over ANT XML? Expressiveness - control structures, other APIs, flexibility... You get all of this plus instant familiarity and a minimal learning curve when you use Java. What do you gain with a scripting language over Java? Doesn't require compilation. I know that it is conventional wisdom that build systems should be scripts, but I don't see the need in this case. Again, I know that this is an unusual method, and as such don't expect you to adopt it. I am, however, happy to discuss it further if you are interested. - Matt -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jason Dillon Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Build System... any ideas The problem with writing build components in Java is that the maintenece process is slow and difficult, and only a select few can currently perform this. Perhaps if the build components were made into a included module this would different... I am undescided as of yet to which is better/easier/simpiler/faster. --jason On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Matt Munz wrote: > Jason, > > > I have > > been thinking about using <script> todo most of the complicated stuff, > > deal with the includes and make the module integration stuff work > > better. > > FYI, an alternative to using javascript (or another scripting language) in > your XML to provide complex ant-based algorithms is to write part or all of > the build system in java. I have done this before and it works quite well. > > FWIW, I find ANT XML to be a bit limiting, and I don't see the comparative > advantage of a scripting language (over java) in this case. If you're > writing your app in java, and your build system engine uses java, why not > write the build system in java too? Every function in ANT can be called > programmatically from java. Doing so allows one to avoid the expressive > limitations of XML. I know that this is an atypical approach, and I'm not > suggesting you use it -- I just want to point out that there are > alternatives to adding another language to the build system. > > - Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jason > Dillon > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:29 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Build System... any ideas > > > > I think we should develop a new custom task to initialize the > properties > > and classpaths for the thirdparty packages. I wrote a hack to check > > that directories are available before calling the task that declares > the > > classpath. We could write a task that takes the dir name properties > to > > set and paths to create, or we could load an xml file from the > > thirdparty directory that had the above. I think either would be > easier > > to understand. Another possibility would be to make use of the script > > task. > > I had looked into this, making a custom task, but dropped it... why... I > can't remember. > > I think that making use of the script task would be a good idea. I have > been thinking about using <script> todo most of the complicated stuff, > deal with the includes and make the module integration stuff work > better. This would leave Ant todo what it is good at... building a > simple module. > > I think this is the way to go, but have not really decided a concrete > direction for it yet. > > I also think that we could probably make use of some of the other Ant > based tools out there... though I think that no matter what we will have > to write some custom bits to make it work as we want and need. > > > > Other then that I think we should use the parallel task in the > testsuite > > to speed up the xdoclet and jar tasks. I'm not sure if it would really > > speed it up but doing a one-test takes forever because of the xdoclet > > tasks. Also the default test suite takes so long that no one runs it > > anymore and most have created "smaller" sub suites, but I don't think > > that is a build system problem. > > David and I talked about this on the way back from Tahoe. I would like > to revisit the entire TestSuite, putting a testsuite in each module, > which would perform Unit tests for components and parts of components > for that module alone. Then the jboss/testsuite would be an integration > testsuite. > > This way, if you are working on bits from the cluster module, you can > write simple tests to validate your component and run the tests quickly. > Then when you are satisfied, you can write an integration test, which > would actual test a real component inside of a JBoss instance. > > This will get us more coverage, but will also encourage developers to > make smaller, simpler tests for stuff and make it more likely they will > run them, as it won't take forever. > > Also, on the subject of build systems and testsuites, I have been toying > with the idea of allow Java and Jython tests to be run together. Using > Jython it will be faster to throw together small and functional tests > with much less code and a lot less trouble. We would still need Java > tests to run stuff that is type dependant, but the two could live > together happy. > > The build system overhaul is a dependency of this I believe. > > I have been planning on doing all of the above... just I haven't had the > time to make any progress. Also I really want to finish the basic > command line console framework. > > Fuck, I need my boss to stop making me work on their lame ass projects. > Who cares about that shit really... bah! > > --jason > > > > -dain > > > > Jason Dillon wrote: > > > Can I get anyone who knows anything about Ant based build systems > > > (extensions, helpers, whatever) to send me some feedback on both > > > positive and negative experiences they have had. > > > > > > It is becoming very apparent that we need to overhaul the build > system > > > to meet the current and future needs. > > > > > > I would appreciate any input you have. > > > > > > --jason > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: AMD - Your access to the experts > > on Hammer Technology! Open Source & Linux Developers, register now > > for the AMD Developer Symposium. Code: EX8664 > > http://www.developwithamd.com/developerlab > > _______________________________________________ > > Jboss-development mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Jboss-development mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Jboss-development mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development > ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf _______________________________________________ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf _______________________________________________ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
