Can you explain the Ant MBean thing to me please. --jason
On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, David Jencks wrote: > On 2002.10.04 09:39:07 -0400 Matt Munz wrote: > > David, > > > > I forget -- were you the one that started that thread re: ANT & JMX on > > the > > ant-dev mailing list? > I don't remember, but I've suggested ant should be a set of mbeans at least > twice on the ant-dev list. > > david > > It makes so much sense it's scary :) I think > > refactoring ANT and JMX/JBoss is a great idea, from a technical > > (apolitical) > > standpoint. > > > > - Matt > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jason > > Dillon > > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:39 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [JBoss-dev] Build System... any ideas > > > > > > The ant committers are all insane. > > > > --jason > > > > > > On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, David Jencks wrote: > > > > > FWIW I think ant could be better replaced by a bunch of mbeans running > > in > > > an mbean server. Basically task == mbean and target also == mbean. > > This > > > would solve about 90% of their problems (especially their incompetent > > > classloaders) with no work. However none of the ant committers seem > > > interested. > > > > > > david jencks > > > > > > On 2002.10.03 21:34:24 -0400 marc fleury wrote: > > > > As I was struggling today with the classpath for tapestry compilation > > > > and messing around with ant files and (gasp!) build magic files, I > > found > > > > myself thinking that "Build on JBoss" could possibly be a project. > > JUST > > > > THE CLASSLOADERS with the complete visibility thingy would be pretty > > > > interesting. We could run a ANT-like MBean and blah blah blah. > > > > marc f > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On > > > > > Behalf Of Jason Dillon > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:18 PM > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Build System... any ideas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with writing build components in Java is that the > > > > > maintenece > > > > > process is slow and difficult, and only a select few can > > > > > currently perform > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps if the build components were made into a included > > > > > module this would > > > > > different... I am undescided as of yet to which is > > > > > better/easier/simpiler/faster. > > > > > > > > > > --jason > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Matt Munz wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Jason, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have > > > > > > > been thinking about using <script> todo most of the complicated > > > > > > > stuff, deal with the includes and make the module > > > > > integration stuff > > > > > > > work better. > > > > > > > > > > > > FYI, an alternative to using javascript (or another scripting > > > > > > language) in your XML to provide complex ant-based algorithms is > > to > > > > > > write part or all of the build system in java. I have done this > > > > > > before and it works quite well. > > > > > > > > > > > > FWIW, I find ANT XML to be a bit limiting, and I don't see the > > > > > > comparative advantage of a scripting language (over java) in this > > > > > > case. If you're writing your app in java, and your build system > > > > > > engine uses java, why not write the build system in java > > > > > too? Every > > > > > > function in ANT can be called programmatically from java. Doing > > so > > > > > > allows one to avoid the expressive limitations of XML. I know > > that > > > > > > this is an atypical approach, and I'm not suggesting you > > > > > use it -- I > > > > > > just want to point out that there are alternatives to > > > > > adding another > > > > > > language to the build system. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf > > Of > > > > > > Jason Dillon > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:29 AM > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] Build System... any ideas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we should develop a new custom task to initialize the > > > > > > properties > > > > > > > and classpaths for the thirdparty packages. I wrote a > > > > > hack to check > > > > > > > that directories are available before calling the task > > > > > that declares > > > > > > the > > > > > > > classpath. We could write a task that takes the dir name > > > > > properties > > > > > > to > > > > > > > set and paths to create, or we could load an xml file from the > > > > > > > thirdparty directory that had the above. I think either would > > be > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > to understand. Another possibility would be to make use of the > > > > > > > script task. > > > > > > > > > > > > I had looked into this, making a custom task, but dropped > > > > > it... why... > > > > > > I can't remember. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that making use of the script task would be a good idea. > > I > > > > > > have been thinking about using <script> todo most of the > > > > > complicated > > > > > > stuff, deal with the includes and make the module integration > > stuff > > > > > > work better. This would leave Ant todo what it is good > > > > > at... building > > > > > > a simple module. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think this is the way to go, but have not really decided > > > > > a concrete > > > > > > direction for it yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > I also think that we could probably make use of some of the > > > > > other Ant > > > > > > based tools out there... though I think that no matter what we > > will > > > > > > have to write some custom bits to make it work as we want and > > need. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other then that I think we should use the parallel task in the > > > > > > testsuite > > > > > > > to speed up the xdoclet and jar tasks. I'm not sure if it would > > > > > > > really speed it up but doing a one-test takes forever > > > > > because of the > > > > > > > xdoclet tasks. Also the default test suite takes so long that > > no > > > > > > > one runs it anymore and most have created "smaller" sub > > > > > suites, but > > > > > > > I don't think that is a build system problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > David and I talked about this on the way back from Tahoe. I > > would > > > > > > like to revisit the entire TestSuite, putting a testsuite in each > > > > > > module, which would perform Unit tests for components and parts > > of > > > > > > components for that module alone. Then the jboss/testsuite > > > > > would be > > > > > > an integration testsuite. > > > > > > > > > > > > This way, if you are working on bits from the cluster > > > > > module, you can > > > > > > write simple tests to validate your component and run the tests > > > > > > quickly. Then when you are satisfied, you can write an > > integration > > > > > > test, which would actual test a real component inside of a JBoss > > > > > > instance. > > > > > > > > > > > > This will get us more coverage, but will also encourage > > > > > developers to > > > > > > make smaller, simpler tests for stuff and make it more likely > > they > > > > > > will run them, as it won't take forever. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, on the subject of build systems and testsuites, I have been > > > > > > toying with the idea of allow Java and Jython tests to be run > > > > > > together. Using Jython it will be faster to throw together > > > > > small and > > > > > > functional tests with much less code and a lot less > > > > > trouble. We would > > > > > > still need Java tests to run stuff that is type dependant, > > > > > but the two > > > > > > could live together happy. > > > > > > > > > > > > The build system overhaul is a dependency of this I believe. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been planning on doing all of the above... just I > > > > > haven't had > > > > > > the time to make any progress. Also I really want to > > > > > finish the basic > > > > > > command line console framework. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fuck, I need my boss to stop making me work on their lame ass > > > > > > projects. Who cares about that shit really... bah! > > > > > > > > > > > > --jason > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -dain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Dillon wrote: > > > > > > > > Can I get anyone who knows anything about Ant based > > > > > build systems > > > > > > > > (extensions, helpers, whatever) to send me some > > > > > feedback on both > > > > > > > > positive and negative experiences they have had. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is becoming very apparent that we need to overhaul the > > build > > > > > > system > > > > > > > > to meet the current and future needs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would appreciate any input you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --jason > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: AMD - Your access to > > > > > the experts > > > > > > > on Hammer Technology! Open Source & Linux Developers, > > > > > register now > > > > > > > for the AMD Developer Symposium. 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