> Am 21.04.2015 um 22:09 schrieb Gus Reiber <[email protected]>:
> 
> Hey Daniel,
>    Awesome feedback. You have pointed out a few things that I have totally 
> missed and a few things that I have just not shown well with my wireframes. 
> So, let me see if I can work my way through your feedback:
> Item selection page issues:
> No descriptive text: I very much agree that is important, but I am thinking 
> that text could move to a hover. Maybe not though, but I should have shown 
> the hover in my pics here.
> Default category: All the uncategorized items would get pushed under the 
> "Plugins" category, though that name may or may not be right. It would be 
> important that new categories make their way back into the community on a 
> regular basis so plugin authors could self-select the category they want 
> their new item to be associated with. This would all need to be documented, 
> but for now...
> Not realistic category distribution: This is definitely the tricky bit, 
> because it would have to be done well to be helpful. For what its worth, the 
> categorization I am showing is based on the plugins CloudBees actually uses 
> internally. That isn't a great sample size, but it isn't cherry picking, 
> either. You are absolutely right, the categories need to proven out in a 
> handful of real-life scenarios.
I think it would be a great improvement if 80% of the uses cases would be easy 
to achieve. So it looks very promising to have such a minimalistic view with 
just the icons. Maybe there needs to be some kind of ‚Advanced‘ section where 
one can edit all details.

> Build step icons:
> Again, you are right that this only works if it really works. We would offer 
> three (imperfect) pieces to help it work:
> We at CloudBees (with the permission of the plugin author) would take the 
> work of backfilling icons for commonly used plugins
> We would offer a set of images that are pictorial abstractions for common job 
> related functions that plugin authors could pick from
> We offer a default icon or icons
That would be a great help, I think most developers would love to use icons 
from a predefined icon set that matches the rest of the graphics/style.
>   This view as config:
> So while I have jiggled some of the names around a little bit and some of the 
> category membership around a little as well, in general, this form form 
> should map with logical equivalence to the existing form. The main thing that 
> is changing is the underlying DOM structure and the CSS and JS that glues 
> visuals and effects on the top. To the extent the current create form works 
> as a config page, this version should work just as well.
> Collapsing makes the page look empty: in general, I think that is a good 
> thing. Each time I look at the Jenkins config screen, I see a giant list of 
> options, most of which I don't care about for my particular job. Ideally, we 
> would make the GUI smart enough to open all and only those sections that have 
> values set in them when the user is using the form in config mode.
> Read only view: We have also talked a bit internally here about showing a 
> read-only initial state to the config form. The read-only view would make it 
> a lot easier to see what the current settings are because it wouldn't need to 
> be burdened with all the GUI goop of editing the settings and the other goop 
> of settings not being used. You would then choose to edit that view and all 
> the config options would then be presented.
> Help Buttons:
> Shame on me, yes, I just left them out. I do think our current help text 
> metaphors are pretty good, but could use a little bit of refinement to make 
> them look a little nicer, but in general, I mean to only be adding context, 
> not removing it.
> Hide/not hide first section:
> I think hiding helps, even for the first section, but I am often wrong.
> Scrolling behaviors:
> So just as an FYI, what I have shown here are actually screenshots of 
> semi-functional HTML. Smooth screen scrolling has not yet emerged as a 
> problem in the prototypes, but it may be that my dataset is insufficient to 
> really stress my proposed GUI gestures. But, not having scrolling problems 
> would be an essential aspect of anything we would want to try to pass-off as 
> an improvement.
> Simple builds:
> My hope here is that by silencing the noise of job configuration steps not in 
> play, but cleanly naming and differentiating those categories, the simple job 
> gets a lot simpler as the create/config process takes on more of a guided 
> wizard type experience. Again, though, the simple build case is indeed a 
> critical use case, so we would need to prove that experience was in fact 
> better, not worse.
> Anyway, hopefully my answers help you know where I do or do not understand 
> your feedback, because it is definitely my goal incorporate as much of it as 
> possible. I want to keep the bar of improvement as high as possible.
> 
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 12:20 AM, Daniel Beck <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> On 20.04.2015, at 23:41, Gus Reiber <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
> > As it stands today, most folks first interaction with Jenkins is a fairly 
> > dry list of radio buttons, asking him/her to select which type of item to 
> > create. Not only is the radio list fairly dry in appearance, as users add 
> > plugins it does little help the user scan the page to find the particular 
> > item type he/she is looking for
> 
> I don't see how this is an improvement in any way for that "first 
> interaction". There should be descriptions what each item is. Imagine the 
> first interaction with Jenkins replaced by a single tile ("Jobs and 
> Workflows") with 1-4 entries (depending on which bundled plugins are enabled) 
> with no further explanation what each item is. Seems to be a huge step 
> backwards.
> 
> Also, what's the default for any plugin not supporting this? An 
> 'Unknown'/'Unclassified' section? Or default to 'Jobs and workflows'?
> 
> How does this view look with 15-20 entries in the 'jobs' category and 1-2 in 
> others? You're presenting the 'best case' distribution of items, but that's 
> not what it will really look like.
> 
> > Because of this importance, and iterative sub-process nature, I am pulling 
> > the list of step operations out of its current pull-down list and giving 
> > each a bit of visual meat. Beyond being decorative, this is meant to help 
> > the user scan quickly for the process step he/she wants and in a sense, 
> > wake the user up with a little reminder that this is likely to be where the 
> > important choices need to be made.
> 
> Could you explain how you'd get there from here? Because today there are no 
> icons, and hundreds of plugins would need to be updated to add these to the 
> builders and publishers they contribute (not to mention any trademark messes 
> related to those icons). How does that design look like with all non-bundled 
> builders having no icon, or the same generic icon?
> 
> > "Notifications" would be another boring control set, so I am not going to 
> > bother showing it, but hopefully you get the idea.
> 
> Actually, I'd be interested in how you determine into which set each 
> Publisher goes. Are 'Post-build actions' those that don't inherit from 
> Notifier? I have some concerns about how Jenkins determines execution order, 
> as this grouping would worsen today's problem that the UI does not properly 
> show the order in which post-build steps are actually executed.
> 
> > This wireframe adds the concept of collapsible region categories, and in 
> > this "Overview" step, weeds out some of the non universal input settings 
> > that are currently in the first segment of the item creation/editing
> 
> 
> Assuming this will be implemented for all config forms to keep things 
> consistent, could you show the Edit View form in this new design as well? My 
> first hunch is that it'll look really empty.
> 
> What's also completely missing in these designs is the help button next to 
> each item. Are there plans to change these as well, or did you just leave 
> them out?
> 
> I wonder about the title 'Create Freestyle Build'. For one thing, the 
> terminology is wrong (it's a job or project, not a build), and the only form 
> that today appears before the corresponding item has been created is the 
> initial slave creation form.
> 
> Why are you collapsing the first section at all? Shouldn't name and 
> description excluded from the collapsing sections? Will the form hide the 
> information what users are editing by default, relying on e.g. bread crumbs?
> 
> IIRC Tom's first attempt (last year or so?) at collapsible sections suffered 
> from navigation issues (as in the viewport moving around) due to all the 
> scrolling going on when collapsing/expanding sections. How are you planning 
> to deal with that?
> 
> How are you going to address the problem that users will no longer be able to 
> see at a glance the handful of options/build steps they have in simple 
> projects? 'Expand all'/'Collapse all' buttons? Indicator how many 
> steps/enabled options are in each section on the title line?
> 
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