Will this “UI”/“theme” be in separate plugin?

> On Apr 23, 2015, at 16:27, Ullrich Hafner <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Am 21.04.2015 um 22:09 schrieb Gus Reiber <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>:
>> 
>> Hey Daniel, 
>>    Awesome feedback. You have pointed out a few things that I have totally 
>> missed and a few things that I have just not shown well with my wireframes. 
>> So, let me see if I can work my way through your feedback:
>> Item selection page issues:
>> No descriptive text: I very much agree that is important, but I am thinking 
>> that text could move to a hover. Maybe not though, but I should have shown 
>> the hover in my pics here.
>> Default category: All the uncategorized items would get pushed under the 
>> "Plugins" category, though that name may or may not be right. It would be 
>> important that new categories make their way back into the community on a 
>> regular basis so plugin authors could self-select the category they want 
>> their new item to be associated with. This would all need to be documented, 
>> but for now...
>> Not realistic category distribution: This is definitely the tricky bit, 
>> because it would have to be done well to be helpful. For what its worth, the 
>> categorization I am showing is based on the plugins CloudBees actually uses 
>> internally. That isn't a great sample size, but it isn't cherry picking, 
>> either. You are absolutely right, the categories need to proven out in a 
>> handful of real-life scenarios.
> I think it would be a great improvement if 80% of the uses cases would be 
> easy to achieve. So it looks very promising to have such a minimalistic view 
> with just the icons. Maybe there needs to be some kind of ‚Advanced‘ section 
> where one can edit all details.
> 
>> Build step icons:
>> Again, you are right that this only works if it really works. We would offer 
>> three (imperfect) pieces to help it work:
>> We at CloudBees (with the permission of the plugin author) would take the 
>> work of backfilling icons for commonly used plugins
>> We would offer a set of images that are pictorial abstractions for common 
>> job related functions that plugin authors could pick from
>> We offer a default icon or icons
> That would be a great help, I think most developers would love to use icons 
> from a predefined icon set that matches the rest of the graphics/style. 
>>   This view as config:
>> So while I have jiggled some of the names around a little bit and some of 
>> the category membership around a little as well, in general, this form form 
>> should map with logical equivalence to the existing form. The main thing 
>> that is changing is the underlying DOM structure and the CSS and JS that 
>> glues visuals and effects on the top. To the extent the current create form 
>> works as a config page, this version should work just as well.
>> Collapsing makes the page look empty: in general, I think that is a good 
>> thing. Each time I look at the Jenkins config screen, I see a giant list of 
>> options, most of which I don't care about for my particular job. Ideally, we 
>> would make the GUI smart enough to open all and only those sections that 
>> have values set in them when the user is using the form in config mode.
>> Read only view: We have also talked a bit internally here about showing a 
>> read-only initial state to the config form. The read-only view would make it 
>> a lot easier to see what the current settings are because it wouldn't need 
>> to be burdened with all the GUI goop of editing the settings and the other 
>> goop of settings not being used. You would then choose to edit that view and 
>> all the config options would then be presented.
>> Help Buttons:
>> Shame on me, yes, I just left them out. I do think our current help text 
>> metaphors are pretty good, but could use a little bit of refinement to make 
>> them look a little nicer, but in general, I mean to only be adding context, 
>> not removing it.
>> Hide/not hide first section:
>> I think hiding helps, even for the first section, but I am often wrong.
>> Scrolling behaviors:
>> So just as an FYI, what I have shown here are actually screenshots of 
>> semi-functional HTML. Smooth screen scrolling has not yet emerged as a 
>> problem in the prototypes, but it may be that my dataset is insufficient to 
>> really stress my proposed GUI gestures. But, not having scrolling problems 
>> would be an essential aspect of anything we would want to try to pass-off as 
>> an improvement.
>> Simple builds:
>> My hope here is that by silencing the noise of job configuration steps not 
>> in play, but cleanly naming and differentiating those categories, the simple 
>> job gets a lot simpler as the create/config process takes on more of a 
>> guided wizard type experience. Again, though, the simple build case is 
>> indeed a critical use case, so we would need to prove that experience was in 
>> fact better, not worse.
>> Anyway, hopefully my answers help you know where I do or do not understand 
>> your feedback, because it is definitely my goal incorporate as much of it as 
>> possible. I want to keep the bar of improvement as high as possible.
>> 
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 12:20 AM, Daniel Beck <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> On 20.04.2015, at 23:41, Gus Reiber <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> 
>> > As it stands today, most folks first interaction with Jenkins is a fairly 
>> > dry list of radio buttons, asking him/her to select which type of item to 
>> > create. Not only is the radio list fairly dry in appearance, as users add 
>> > plugins it does little help the user scan the page to find the particular 
>> > item type he/she is looking for
>> 
>> I don't see how this is an improvement in any way for that "first 
>> interaction". There should be descriptions what each item is. Imagine the 
>> first interaction with Jenkins replaced by a single tile ("Jobs and 
>> Workflows") with 1-4 entries (depending on which bundled plugins are 
>> enabled) with no further explanation what each item is. Seems to be a huge 
>> step backwards.
>> 
>> Also, what's the default for any plugin not supporting this? An 
>> 'Unknown'/'Unclassified' section? Or default to 'Jobs and workflows'?
>> 
>> How does this view look with 15-20 entries in the 'jobs' category and 1-2 in 
>> others? You're presenting the 'best case' distribution of items, but that's 
>> not what it will really look like.
>> 
>> > Because of this importance, and iterative sub-process nature, I am pulling 
>> > the list of step operations out of its current pull-down list and giving 
>> > each a bit of visual meat. Beyond being decorative, this is meant to help 
>> > the user scan quickly for the process step he/she wants and in a sense, 
>> > wake the user up with a little reminder that this is likely to be where 
>> > the important choices need to be made.
>> 
>> Could you explain how you'd get there from here? Because today there are no 
>> icons, and hundreds of plugins would need to be updated to add these to the 
>> builders and publishers they contribute (not to mention any trademark messes 
>> related to those icons). How does that design look like with all non-bundled 
>> builders having no icon, or the same generic icon?
>> 
>> > "Notifications" would be another boring control set, so I am not going to 
>> > bother showing it, but hopefully you get the idea.
>> 
>> Actually, I'd be interested in how you determine into which set each 
>> Publisher goes. Are 'Post-build actions' those that don't inherit from 
>> Notifier? I have some concerns about how Jenkins determines execution order, 
>> as this grouping would worsen today's problem that the UI does not properly 
>> show the order in which post-build steps are actually executed.
>> 
>> > This wireframe adds the concept of collapsible region categories, and in 
>> > this "Overview" step, weeds out some of the non universal input settings 
>> > that are currently in the first segment of the item creation/editing
>> 
>> 
>> Assuming this will be implemented for all config forms to keep things 
>> consistent, could you show the Edit View form in this new design as well? My 
>> first hunch is that it'll look really empty.
>> 
>> What's also completely missing in these designs is the help button next to 
>> each item. Are there plans to change these as well, or did you just leave 
>> them out?
>> 
>> I wonder about the title 'Create Freestyle Build'. For one thing, the 
>> terminology is wrong (it's a job or project, not a build), and the only form 
>> that today appears before the corresponding item has been created is the 
>> initial slave creation form.
>> 
>> Why are you collapsing the first section at all? Shouldn't name and 
>> description excluded from the collapsing sections? Will the form hide the 
>> information what users are editing by default, relying on e.g. bread crumbs?
>> 
>> IIRC Tom's first attempt (last year or so?) at collapsible sections suffered 
>> from navigation issues (as in the viewport moving around) due to all the 
>> scrolling going on when collapsing/expanding sections. How are you planning 
>> to deal with that?
>> 
>> How are you going to address the problem that users will no longer be able 
>> to see at a glance the handful of options/build steps they have in simple 
>> projects? 'Expand all'/'Collapse all' buttons? Indicator how many 
>> steps/enabled options are in each section on the title line?
>> 
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