So James, are you then arguing that we should leave the existing plugin
bundle alone?
...or are you just saying a remote connection for initial plugin collecting
is problematic?

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:30 AM, James Nord <[email protected]> wrote:

> Daniel,
>
> So while these are all relevant points, it's a completely different issue,
>> only affecting very experienced users in an unusually restrictive
>> environment only. Everyone else just uses the update center.
>>
>
> You responded to this when it was explicitly about restrictive
> environments.
>
> And if it is for next Xmas: Don't forget all users who are deploying
>> Jenkins in a environment with no internet (or a limited access). Thus if we
>> could pack together some set of plugins (and required dependencies) and
>> allow jenkins to "eat" them. Deploying plugins one by one is a nightmare
>> and error prone
>
>
> So to say deploying plugins one by one has a workaround - when the
> workaround will not work in the environment described doesn't a workaround
> make.
>
> So while these are all relevant points, it's a completely different issue
>>
>
> Fair enough - but you [cs]hould have said that earlier.
>
>  only affecting very experienced users
>>
>
> I disagree with that.  There is no correlation between the security
> paranoid companies/governments and the experience of the Jenkins user.
> Infact you may well find that in restrictive sites you are more likely to
> get noobies as the install may have to be provided by the IT department who
> are not developers and have not even seen the UI before.
>
> So this bare-bones jenkins won't do anything for new users - which is a
> bit of a concern - not even build a job when freestyle gets pulled out of
> core, and that to me really kind of sucks and leaves a user feeling like
> the tool is broken - rather than they need to do something.  So that I feel
> would be a mistake of epic proportion.
>
> A long long time ago I was setting up cruise control, I wasted an awful
> amount of time over the period of a week and I just couldn't get it to work
> with my subversion repo and my build tooling.  I then downloaded Jenkins
> and was running in less than one hour.   Why am I telling you this -
> because that first impression is golden.  If you remove a %age of users
> that can't access the update center to get even the simple FreeStyleJob
> then we are the new cruise control.  Do I have a solution - Yes/No/Maybe...
>   Eclipse.org  provides "distributions"  you can get the basic IDE and add
> the plugins you want - or you can get the Java version, or the J2EE
> version, or the PHP version...   If we have something that has no
> functionality out of the box - I think we need somthing that also comes
> with some functionlity in the box - you can still show the wizzard to
> customize (if you have a internet connection) but if you don;t you have
> something you can at least experiment with.
>
>
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 6:04:32 PM UTC+1, Daniel Beck wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 29.08.2015, at 10:46, James Nord <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > That should work, but I don't see how that would work with mirroring.
>> I would rather see something generate a zip containing the plugins and deps
>> being generated that you can upload in one rather than generating new wars,
>> otherwise the poor people that use the native packages will be out in the
>> cold.
>> > Also need to consider security in this as you know what you get from
>> the update center is the correct binary...
>>
>> The idea here is to make it easier for new users to get started with
>> useful functionality. Right now we bundle a bunch of irrelevant features
>> (e.g. Monitor External Job) and are missing a lot of popular and -- by
>> today's standard -- essential features. (A nice side effect is to get rid
>> of the annoying parts of 'bundling', like no uninstall.)
>>
>> So while these are all relevant points, it's a completely different
>> issue, only affecting very experienced users in an unusually restrictive
>> environment only. Everyone else just uses the update center.
>>
>> --
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