He also brought up the eclipse.org style "distributions" or "flavors" which I am sure has been brought up before (I can't recall objections though)
On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 10:53 AM Gus Reiber <[email protected]> wrote: > So James, are you then arguing that we should leave the existing plugin > bundle alone? > ...or are you just saying a remote connection for initial plugin > collecting is problematic? > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:30 AM, James Nord <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Daniel, >> >> So while these are all relevant points, it's a completely different >>> issue, only affecting very experienced users in an unusually restrictive >>> environment only. Everyone else just uses the update center. >>> >> >> You responded to this when it was explicitly about restrictive >> environments. >> >> And if it is for next Xmas: Don't forget all users who are deploying >>> Jenkins in a environment with no internet (or a limited access). Thus if we >>> could pack together some set of plugins (and required dependencies) and >>> allow jenkins to "eat" them. Deploying plugins one by one is a nightmare >>> and error prone >> >> >> So to say deploying plugins one by one has a workaround - when the >> workaround will not work in the environment described doesn't a workaround >> make. >> >> So while these are all relevant points, it's a completely different issue >>> >> >> Fair enough - but you [cs]hould have said that earlier. >> >> only affecting very experienced users >>> >> >> I disagree with that. There is no correlation between the security >> paranoid companies/governments and the experience of the Jenkins user. >> Infact you may well find that in restrictive sites you are more likely to >> get noobies as the install may have to be provided by the IT department who >> are not developers and have not even seen the UI before. >> >> So this bare-bones jenkins won't do anything for new users - which is a >> bit of a concern - not even build a job when freestyle gets pulled out of >> core, and that to me really kind of sucks and leaves a user feeling like >> the tool is broken - rather than they need to do something. So that I feel >> would be a mistake of epic proportion. >> >> A long long time ago I was setting up cruise control, I wasted an awful >> amount of time over the period of a week and I just couldn't get it to work >> with my subversion repo and my build tooling. I then downloaded Jenkins >> and was running in less than one hour. Why am I telling you this - >> because that first impression is golden. If you remove a %age of users >> that can't access the update center to get even the simple FreeStyleJob >> then we are the new cruise control. Do I have a solution - Yes/No/Maybe... >> Eclipse.org provides "distributions" you can get the basic IDE and add >> the plugins you want - or you can get the Java version, or the J2EE >> version, or the PHP version... If we have something that has no >> functionality out of the box - I think we need somthing that also comes >> with some functionlity in the box - you can still show the wizzard to >> customize (if you have a internet connection) but if you don;t you have >> something you can at least experiment with. >> >> >> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 6:04:32 PM UTC+1, Daniel Beck wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 29.08.2015, at 10:46, James Nord <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > That should work, but I don't see how that would work with mirroring. >>> I would rather see something generate a zip containing the plugins and deps >>> being generated that you can upload in one rather than generating new wars, >>> otherwise the poor people that use the native packages will be out in the >>> cold. >>> > Also need to consider security in this as you know what you get from >>> the update center is the correct binary... >>> >>> The idea here is to make it easier for new users to get started with >>> useful functionality. Right now we bundle a bunch of irrelevant features >>> (e.g. Monitor External Job) and are missing a lot of popular and -- by >>> today's standard -- essential features. (A nice side effect is to get rid >>> of the annoying parts of 'bundling', like no uninstall.) >>> >>> So while these are all relevant points, it's a completely different >>> issue, only affecting very experienced users in an unusually restrictive >>> environment only. Everyone else just uses the update center. >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/jenkinsci-dev/kRobm-cxFw8/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/92cc1041-695e-4d3c-ae6d-cd53c782dedf%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/92cc1041-695e-4d3c-ae6d-cd53c782dedf%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/jenkinsci-dev/kRobm-cxFw8/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAOcHHXzFTqgWx-d%2B7u%3Dq2rDgcGOdL6D6kRY5ASn%2BbYyU9B1E%3Dg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAOcHHXzFTqgWx-d%2B7u%3Dq2rDgcGOdL6D6kRY5ASn%2BbYyU9B1E%3Dg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAKVMTi6q%2BgurTeSsUeHcO%2BnWSE%3DpSfXoeVpTLCEnDQFJuBBALA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
