on 2/5/01 6:02 PM, "David Sean Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Jon Stevens wrote:
>> How is that? You are asking me to compare Velocity and JSP, but you aren't
>> really saying why other than it concerns you.
>
>>> If you come from a Perl or PHP background, JSP is a way to take
>>> your pain to new levels. --Anonymous
>
> My suspicions are that JSP is painful as in difficult to debug.
> That part about 'pain to new levels' is very concerning for anyone planning
> on working with JSP on a big project.
> Isn't that what you intended, for people to ask why it is so painful?
Yep. I'm also working on an essay titled:
"You make the decision."
It will be a stark compare and contrast between Turbine+Velocity and
Struts+JSP. I think it will make it plain as day how badly broken the MVC
model is with Struts+JSP based sites are compared with Turbine+Velocity.
Another quick way to see how bad JSP really is, is to take a look at all of
the JSP related articles on Javaworld.com. *Every* single article completely
misses the MVC separation point in their examples. There is stuff as bad as
not using taglibs to having Java code in the JSP template.
> Anyway, Thanks for the quick response, now you really have my interest!
Great!
> Id like to start developing with the Pull Service Model.
> Is the Pull Service still being designed and developed, can I start writing
> Application Tools with it today?
> I looked at the classes last week (1/28 build), and there wasn't much there
> yet.
> (Dont get me wrong, simplicity is often brilliance)
Yep, it is fully implemented and working.
> How would one go about writing Application Tools?
There is an example one in the org.apache.turbine.util.pull package called
UIManager which is done by Jason van Zyl.
> Is it as simple as writing any class and inheriting from an ApplicationTool?
Yep.
> Then the methods are found with introspection...
You don't even have to inherit from ApplicationTool. That is simply if you
want to work within the Pull Service. *any* object placed into the Context
can have its methods found with introspection.
> Is there some kind of persistent registry of tools?
That would be tools implemented in the Pull Service.
> Looking at the impl of TurbinePullService, there is a Map: private Map
> toolBox;
> Are there plans for hierarchies or categories of application tools?
That is up to you to implement. You can have a single tool which has methods
to retrieve other tools.
$app.MyPrimaryTool.MySecondaryTool
> Look forward to reading your page on the negatives of JSP
So do I. I think this is going to be good.
> thanks, and sorry for all the questions, but this is very interesting to me,
> and hopefully the other jetspeeders,
> Ive seen the database stuff linking to form input fields, that is cool and
> worth checking out
Oh, that is just the tip of the iceberg. John Mcnally is working on making
it possible to take a *single* form <input> tag and move it to another page
without having to modify a *single* line of Java code and also having it
perform complete form validation using regular expressions.
-jon
--
If you come from a Perl or PHP background, JSP is a way to take
your pain to new levels. --Anonymous
<http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/> | <http://java.apache.org/turbine/>
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