Sorry it's a little long but includes crucial information (2nd topic) to the understanding of the Palestinian motives and the Israelis' actions.
Joseph wrote: > > The fact is that the Vatican saved between 740,000 and > 860,000 Jews from extermination. The Pope used the > assetts of the Vatican to ransom Jews from the Nazis > and ran an extensive network of hideouts. After the > war, the World Jewish Congress made a large cash gift > to the Vatican in thanks. Moshe Sharrett, former > Foreign Affairs Minister and Prime Minister of Israel > went to see Pius XII "to thank the Catholic CHurch for > what it did to save the Jews in all parts of the > world". Rabbi Herzog, of Jerusalem, sent a special > blessing to the Pope "for his lifesaving efforts of > behalf of the Jews during the Nazi occupation of > Italy". > > When Pius XII died, Golda Meir wrote: "During the Nazi > terror, when our people were subjected to a terrible > matyrdom, the Pope's voice was raised to condemn the > persecutors and to offer mercy to their victims. We > mourn over the death of a great server of peace." > Hi Joseph, Could you please list your sources for this info. I am not saying it's not true, I just thought the whole matter was very murky and unclear. In fact I recently read in the newspaper that the Vatican is finally going to release Pius XII's private archives. The article states that until now, historians who were mandated to determine the Pope's true role during WW2 said they couldn't reach any definitive conclusion because the Vatican only gave them access to limited archives and not the whole thing. > FOr some reason, the media is all against Israel. > They'll take any shot at them they can get. We hear > all about the wrongs Israel has done, but hardly > anything bad that Palestine does. I have noticed it on > the evening news. You see atrocities committed by > Palestine only in short snippets in the newspaper, and > they aren't mentioned at all on TV. The media likes to > spin it> > All I know is, it takes TWO to tango. But, to me, I > can't see how Israel defending themselves is wrong - > they are the defender. Palestine is the attacker - and > a vicious one at that. Maybe just my naive view again. > Well I'm glad someone sees the reality through the bull. This is really the crux of the matter. I wish to throw a few facts to back this up, taken from the PLO Charter, written in 64 and revised in 68. * Article 19 states that the divide of Palestine and the creation of Israel as voted by the UN in 47 are null and void, regardless of how long how a time has elapsed... * Article 20 clarifies that the Balfour declaration, the mandate over Palestine and everything that follows to prove an historical link between jews and Palestine are null and void. Not only that but what the PLO REALLY wants is the entire Palestine as defined by the British mandate, this includes Transjordan which became the kingdom of Jordan. (Remember "black september" in 1970 when King Hussein of Jordan, sick and tired of the PLO ransacking the population, killed tens of thousands of Palestinians and expelled the rest, I should add after making a final conciliatory attempt when Hussein offered Arafat the position of prime minister which he turned down). So that there should be no doubt on this matter, * Article 2 states: "Palestine within the borders of the British mandate constitutes an indivisible entity" * A commentary to Article 6 adds: "the aggression against the Palestinian people began in 1917 (the year of the Balfour declaration) and every trace must be erased up to that date, not just to the war of june 67" So it's pretty clear that the PLO wants all sovereignty over the entire territory, with all the jews thrown out (or worse). Some may think these demands have assuaged over time, I wish it were true. But the world refuses to hear the true demands, just like it didn't believe Mein Kampf which had all spelled out. I'm quoting from a 1981 book, so the evidence below is from around this time. Nothing has changed since. * On 2/11/80, Arafat was interviewed by the newspaper El Mundo in Caracas, Venezuela. He declared: "Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing ourselves for a total war which will last for generations. We shall not rest until we return home and have destroyed Israel...The destruction of Israel is the goal to our fight. The orientations of our fight have not varied since the creation of the Fatah in 65: 1) Revolutionary violence is the only means to free up our ancestors' home 2) The objective of this violence is to destroy zionism in all its forms: political, economical, military, and to throw it out of Palestine. 3) This will be a long fight. We know some arab leaders want to end the conflict via peaceful means. If this should happen, we would fight it...." (remember Sadate?) * the PLO representative in Saudi Arabia, Mr. Rafik Natche, declared in april 80 in the Al Ryad paper: "One should clearly understand that any Palestinian entity on any part of Palestinian land should only be the stepping ground to liberating the other parts of Palestine....of the entire Palestine" "When the PLO was created in 64, it was not to liberate Hebron, Nablus or Gaza, which were liberated; but thruthfully to liberate Haofa, Jaffa, Ramla and the Neguev" * Hani el Hassan, the PLO representative in Iran, was interviewed on radio-Teheran in mai 80: "The Iranian revolution and Khomeiny are great allies for us. Within 5 years we will create a Palestinian government and within 15 years we hope to destroy Israel. We hope that Iranian and Palestinian leaders will march through Jerusalem hand in hand. * Georges Habache declared in an interview to the Greek paper Apoyvmatini on 12/15/79: "Yes in the beginning we will accept a portion of Palestine. But we will never agree to be satistied with that. We will fight until we take it all, until the last inch." * Ibrahim Souss, PLO representative in Paris, on Europe 1 radio on 3/10/80: -"Our rights are on the entire Palestinian land, we shall never give up our rights" -journalist: "But where?" -"On the entire Palestinian land" -"In place of Israel?" -"For us a Palestinian state means an independant state right now on any portion of the land, because from there we will take back the whole". * Yasser Arafat himself at the "Firm Front" meeting in Tripoli on 4/14/80, as broadcasted on Radio Monte Carlo: "Khadafi's speech in which he demanded that zionist invaders return to their original country, and the removal of Israel from the map are the PLO guidelines and we will work fully to this goal". Finally, so that one does not believe the above are personal declarations, the Fatah (the PLO main branch, of which Arafat is the leader) adopted in its congress in Damas from 5/28-31/1980 a Political Program, so a well thought of and binding document, published on 6/2/80 by El Liwa, a Lebanese paper. The 1st paragraph: "The Fatah is a revolutionary independant organization, whose goal is to liberate Palestine completely and to eliminate the zionist entity politically, economically, militarily, culturally and ideologically. The only way to achieve our goal is popular armed revolution. The armed revolution of the palestinian people is the decisive factor in the struggle leading to the liberation and the elimination of the zionist presence. This fight will end only after the zionist entity will have been eliminated and Palestine liberated". One can see that the PLO clearly states its goals in its Charter and in all its declarations, as crudely as Hitler had stated his in Mein Kampf . The same people who didn't believe Hitler then and brought about the Holocaust, are shutting their eyes now to the fact that the PLO wishes what it says. Thus, the Israeli position can be summarized in 2 words "never again". Everything else is moot. How do you negotiate with someone who wants you dead? One can relay the world media position about Israel, but who can say Israelis want to eliminate Palestinians? The reverse is sadly true. Laurent
