[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 1/12/01 7:28:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << As for beliefs being a choice. They are. It isn't an opinion it is a fact.
> >>
>
> 1. i'm not antagonized. i love you and you know that.
>
> 2. i want to see the facts that determine that my faith expression is belief
> and my sexuality is not. i'd like to see that explained.
I have explained and you have chosen to interpret what i wrote as belittling your
faith.
You cannot compare your beliefs with homosexuailty and I find it disturbing that you
do.
Like many people, you find the idea that your beliefs are choseny by you to be
frightening
and unacceptable. But it is the way things are. To say you were born with your faith is
abdicating your responsibility for your what you believe.
I do believe you were born as a spirit in a physical body. You are aware of that. But
we
not born with consiou knowledge of this which leads to faith. For as long as I can
remember I did not believe in death, that physical death was the end. I still believe
that. I also hvae my own beliefs about the whys and wherefores and the implications of
this. However, I also accpet that I may be wrong in my understanding. I use the best
thinking i can come up with today to formulate what i find acceptable to my conscience
and
what i don't. So do you. For this I am repsonsible and I believe you are too, even if
you
don't.
The inplication of what you say about your faith is that YOU are right and therefotre
that
seems no different to the others who insist they are right.
That feeling you have(I know the feeling you write of) that you are a part of God, that
God touches you is real. I do not doubt that. BUT our belief system surrounding that
feeling is just that-how we have interpreted that feeling. If you had been brought up
within a diffrent culture or time, you would interpret it differently, because your
experience and meaning structures would be different.
Take what we call time-past, present, and future. we know there was a yesterday, a
today
and a tomorrow, just as we know we live and breathe. yet time is a function of our
brian,
the way our brain makes sense of our world. Past present and future is not separate but
all now. A concept not understandable by a brian stuck in linear time.
Also we as humans all live in different worlds. None of us sees the world in the same
way
as we all have different experience and we all creat meaning and interpret our
experience
differently. hence the conflict we suffer. If we understood that p[eople who think
differently and see things diffferently are not necessarily bad, we would be on our
way to
changing things. If we understood that 'bad' people are the way they are because of
fear
and ignorance we might better be able to change them by edcuation and love(the anidote
to
fear is love).
It is people's fear of homosexuality(since you mentioned it) is what causes the
conflict.
Homosexuality is as natural as having red hair or being left handed. However, people
fear
it because people fear that which is different and what they do not understand. Some
say
they are repulsed by it. yet they do not stop to consider that we may find heteroseaul
sex
repulsive! There is no difference betwen homosexaul love and heterosexual love. Both
can
be very powerful and fulfilling.
People who insist they are not homophobic yet believe homsosexuality is wrong are full
of
self deciet. Equally so those who say it is wrong because of their religious belief,
but
they are just not accepting responsibilty for their own bigtry and are just apssing the
buck.
In the long run, we are all accountable for our beliefs and our actions. NOTHING goes
unrewarded. Ther can be no cause without an effect. To think otherwise is foolish. I
believe that is a natural law. I do not believe God punishes anybody, least of all for
their sins. No, we are punished BY our sins. A good example to explain this: a Jewish
woman came to see me. She was greatly distressed. She hadn't seen her daughter for many
years and wanted my help to reunite with her. Howver, the reason the woman didn't see
her
daughter was because her daughter had married a black non jew and had therefore been
banished from the family. The mother expected the dsaughter to come back to family
without
her children and her husband. This womans suffering was her punishment for her sin. God
doesn't need to punish us!
Much of our sins(erros) are intentional and the result of ignorance. This does not stop
the results. Cause and effect. always. No escaping that.
I believe when we are released from the physical world, we carry on as we are. We will
find ourselves in the surroundings we are fitted for. If those surroundings are
unpleasant
and dark, it is because this is where our spiritual development has got us. We can
change
that by changing oursleves, by reaching out toward the light. Or we can stay there,
blaming everyone else, turning our backs to the light. The choice is always ours. I am
sure you have come across people that are miserable and cannot be helped because they
refuse to change. Basically if you are a misrable old sod before death, you will be the
same after death, regardless of how many times you wnet to church or what you profess
to
believe! It is our TRUE natures that dictates our lot, not what we give lip service to.
To a lesser extent, the life we lead here is also according to our beiefs and nature.
If
we think the world is an evil place, full of suffering and evil scary people, we won't
see
the glory in it. If we believe the opposite to the exclusion of the dark side, we will
be
foolish and at great risk and also we will be 'sinful' because we will allow this
darkness
to continue because we refuse to see it! Tuirning a blind eye is a mistake.
The difference between a perosn who awakes to face the day with dread and the one
awakes
to face the day with hope is one of belief. It is really that simple.
Sermon over ;-)
take care
colin
>
>
> my whole premise on this issue is that you or anyone else can not know the
> secrets of my heart. and i'm so surprised about this. you tell me that your
> sexuality is the way you are and how you are born. and i believe you.
> totally. don't question it. admire you for your self understanding and your
> honesty.
>
> but i tell you that my faith is the way i am and how i was born, and you tell
> me it's not. it's belief. it's ....whatever.
>
> and i see a huge inconsistancy in that. you don't know my world. you don't
> know what goes on when i see the moon in the early hours or when i feel the
> salt breeze come across the marsh when the sky is black and the trees lurk in
> the shadows of life. or when i see the broken heart of a human. or someone
> frightend or lost. or the smile of child.
>
> these things lead me to worship. to call to the creator and say life is
> good. and that is my faith. when my heart speaks back to the one who knows
> me. and that happens all by itself. it just does it. i can't stop it. and
> it's always been that way. and it always will. it is who i am. it's how i
> was born.
>
> why must you tell me it's anything less. especially when i don't do the same
> to you.
>
> patrick
> np. fishpump
--
bw
colin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html
