begin quoting boblq as of Sun, Jun 25, 2006 at 11:20:40PM -0700:
> On Sunday 25 June 2006 10:54 pm, Stewart Stremler wrote:
> > begin quoting boblq as of Sun, Jun 25, 2006 at 09:59:26PM -0700:
> > > Here is an app that demands javascript.
> > > http://www.zillow.com/
> >
> > Eh. A good tool for generating buyer's remorse...
>
> Heh, or if you bought in 1996 a smug grin.
*laugh*
So very true.
[snip]
> > That sort of attitude doesn't deserve security. I _don't_ want the
> > security guys catching up: if people are willing to abandon security,
> > well, that's their choice. Let 'em live with their choices.
>
> They will. That is my point. And other security people will
> catch up. The world goes on willy nilly and it cares little for
> the opinions of BobLQ or Stewart Stremler.
Indeed it does.
> > I object to people telling me I must abandon my standards to accomodate
> > their sloppiness. I don't do business with companies that _require_
> > javascript -- because it's not their place to make that decision for
> > me, and I object when they do so.
>
> You can drive a Model T. Nobody forces you to go to zillow.com.
Yet.
The pressure increases. How much pressure does there have to be before
it counts as "force"?
> But if you do in order for it to be of use you will have to enable
> javascript. It is a little like realizing that English has great economic
> value in the USA. You can go there and speak only Spanish but you
> will pay a price for that choice.
The advantage with Javascript, however, is that I *can* set up a proxy
and edit the javascript as it streams by. I should do this. (And the
first thing to do is to replace all the open() calls with regular links,
and all validation functions should automatically return true without
any checking, etc. etc. -- the more I mess with it, the better.)
It's kinda hard to subvert the language/country problem.
> > Nor do I recommend 'em if someone is looking for something, and I
> > know they have it. Why should I? It's wrong to recommend a business
> > that you won't do business with yourself.
>
> Right you can do that. So what? For every SS I assert there are at
> least 100 unwashed naifs who will say "Kool!!!" or whatever such
> folks say these days :) I suppose I should ask my son.
Heh. True. But I can't stop tilting at windmills.
> Of course these Javascript users will pay a price, but the vast
> majority of them will not even know it and will not care. You on
> the otherhand are almost paralyzed in this arena by your superior
> knowledge.
Sometimes. Sometimes it's quite liberating.... I can quickly decide
that I'm not going to bother with a website at all, instead of wasting
my time being distracted. It's like HTML email -- I quickly realize
that I don't need to bother reading it, and I can move on to other
things.
> Recently I read "Thucydides reminds us 'the stupid
> come off best in intrigue." He uses the word intrigue
> repeatedly in The History of the Peloponnesian War
> in a very broad sense to describe the complex encounters
> between the various factions who were party to those
> wars ... "these individuals succeed because they fear
> being outwitted by more reflective people, so they
> do not hesitate to strike suddenly and sharply. Thought
> and unfettered discussion help, but only so much."
Heh.
> Bend these thoughts a little and they apply to the security
> issues that have you paralyzed.
Well... sorta.
On the other hand, I don't have _half_ the aggravation that my coworkers
do -- despite my apparant moaning all the time. They get cool
websites... and wiped hard drives. They get dancing bunnies, and
spyware reporting their every move. They get to save three seconds by
not clicking on an icon... and run thirty-five trojans in the background
at all times.
It's a wash, I think. It all averages out.
> > (And I'm astonished when a business makes it difficult for me to give
> > them money. Obviously, I don't understand modern commerce. Piss off
> > your customers, insult them, treat 'em as thieves, and then sue them.
> > Maybe most people are dysfunctional and like being treated like crap?)
>
> Piss off an irrelevant elite and it does not matter. What is it about
> your irrelevance that you do not understand?
Well, I've been using Linux for a long time. I'm used to irrelevence.
But if you want the world to change, you can't go along with the way the
world is... you have to be a little grain of sand, and hope that one day
you'll end up in a cog... or an eye.
> [snip random ravings as SS loses it, were I feeling cruel I would
> say, again ... ;{]
Again? That would imply that I regained it at least once. ;-)
--
_ |\_
\|
--
[email protected]
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
