On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:28 AM, James G. Sack (jim) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bob La Quey wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:06 PM, Joshua Penix <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> I view SDCS as an OS-agnostic organization whose strength is in its
> >> volunteer resources and community contacts. Unfortunately those strengths
> >> have diminished significantly over the last ~10 years. The big question
> is
> >> whether or not it's worth putting effort into exercising what's left
> >> (including a reasonable size treasury made up of donations that were
> already
> >> given to the SDCS in good faith) and maybe rebuilding the enthusiasm that
> >> has been lost. I believe it is, but am still working to develop my vision
> >> of exactly how and where.
> >>
> >> I keep asking myself two core questions:
> >>
> >> 1) What can we do?
> >>
> >> 2) Who can we do it for?
>
> >
> > If you look at what is happening it is called Web 2.0, facebook, ning,
> orkut,
> > picasa, flickr, del.icio.us ... all that you guys are discussing is so
> > far behind
> > the curve as to be irrelevant.
> >
> > I know I am just an old fart enamoured with "new, shiny" but so are 70
> million
> > face book members ...
> >
> > Meanwhile Obama rasies $40 million in one moth because his crew
> > gets it.
> >
> > Get with the program folks.
>
> Heh. Good points, but I think that falls (mostly) into the /how/
> category, and IMO, is not the right thing to spend time on until getting
> more of the /what/ and probably /why/. I wouldn't dispute that
> awareness of these methods and examples do lead to new ideas on what
> might be undertaken.
I completely disagree. This is where the "who" are. If you do not
get that then you do not get it. The "who" are not thinking about
Linux or Mac or Windows. The new audience has been on the net since
childhood and is only interested in where upon the net to be.
> And it's admittedly hard to avoid talking about the /how/ just to make
> ideas more concrete or to illustrate by example. But I'm convinced that
> the attention spent on that should be deliberately limited, in favor of
> the broader preparatory questions.
The broader preparatory question is indeed /who/. I will argue
that /who/ is a new generation of people who are on the net,
have computers, do not think much about their OS, but want to
use the new services available to them.
> Actually, in this case the /who/ needs to be continually kept in mind,
> as well. We're talking about SDCS, not KPLUG. And, of course, we're
> talking about the larger community as well -- some of which (schools,
> libraries, etc) has in fact been part of the discussion, I'm happy to
> acknowledge.
If we are talking about the SDCS then we are wasting our time. If we are
talking about the "larger community" then there is some point to the
discussion.
> Maybe some think I'm belaboring a moot point, and feel the why and what
> are already understood. Sorry, I think that would be a somewhat reckless
> assumption. I don't think it's just me, is it?. It's useful to have a
> target in mind before you draw the bowstring, eh? [how's that go?]
>
> To follow my own advice, here are a few thoughts to stir around:
>
> why:
> we (SDCS and sigs) have resources going underutilized
> there are community needs we are especially equipped to help with
> we could increase our own satisfaction by doing good
> we could increase our recognition by doing useful things
> (dare I say it) to keep SDCS viable -- a side benefit maybe
SDCS has become irrelevant because it is irrelevant. What
resources does SDCS have to offer the "larger community?"
A bunch of old guys sitting around telling war stories?
I enjoy this. I don't think it interests my son or daughter
who are 19 and 20.
A group with deep knowledge of some current technologies
and no idea or interest in where it is all headed?
The first and foremost thing SDCS needs is new blood.
Maybe meetup.com will help, but why should people come
to the meetings?
Ok, how about a simple starter. Each person over 40
invite someone under 30 to the next meeting of the SDCS.
If you do not bring a guest you cannot come. Your guest
is your ticket. Give a real prize for the member who brings
the most young people.
Then develop a whiz bang presentation.
"The next decade of computing."
Have a contentious panel discuss the presentation.
Andy and I can have a foo fight :)
How hard is that?
Oh and I promise to dance unless paid not to ;)
> what:
> assist computer users generally
> assist underprivileged & disadvantaged
> assist groups or institutions (schools, libs) with compatible goals
> indirectly assist via communication & information technology
> contribute to emergency preparedness and response
> ---lesser/future goals might include:
> foster professional and academic purposes
These are good whats. I suggest that if SDCS does not look
beyond 1990's technology then (what you call how) then there
is _no_ reason for anyone to be interested in their help.
> who:
> SDCS (sigs -- let's catalog their interests and resources)
> friends, orgs, commercial supporters, ..
> SDCOE and other institutions
> community segments -- determine needs, geo/demo-graphics, etc
> ---eventually, upon actually _doing_ something:
> individuals (project leaders, contributors, advisors, ..)
> ---also important:
> let's make sure of sig buy-in, before going too far
> maybe even "buy-in" is too strong, let's _involve_ them first
> promotion and negotiation -- Josh, you there? ;-)
>
This "who" must have something to offer outsiders.
What is it?
> The why's needs at least some elaboration and consensus.
> The what's needs a lot of further brainstorming and refining.
> All could use somebody's notekeeping and editorial efforts -- wiki?
A Wiki is a useful log but no substitute for ideas.
> ==> Now, how do we expand this discussion beyond this KPLUG list?
Pick anyone of a hundred forums and cross post.
> ==> What else.
I would suggest that the KPLUG needs to look
into what is happening on the net. One place to start is:
http://www.programmableweb.com/
A good example of the new Web Os's that are
emerging from this chaos is this from ning.com
See http://developer.ning.com/wiki/Ning_Architecture_Basics
On the level of the individual machine then this
points toward things like NetKernel. See http://1060.org/
This is also a good example of the point that Doug LaRue
was making about the importance of architecture.
Look guys. The web is the future. REST is the direction
forward.
I accept and am relaxed with the probability that Andrew,
SJS, and most of the crew likely disagree with me. Foo fight!
So it goes,
BobLQ
--
[email protected]
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
