The private  airport I fly out of (1IL4) just put in a fuel tank for 
ethanol-free gas.  But the problem is it's only 91 octane.  I've noticed most 
gas stations have 93 octane.Question,  Is 91 octane normal for ethanol free or 
is 93 octane available ethanol free.

Paul ViskBelleville Il.618-406-4705
-------- Original message --------From: Mike T via KRnet <> 
Date: 8/11/18  3:24 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: KRnet <> Cc: Mike T 
<> Subject: Re: KR> Mogas Blues. 
I wish FBOs at airports would just sell ethanol-free auto gas.  Then people
could use it with confidence or blend it with 100 LL to get whatever lead
level they wanted.

Mike Taglieri

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 12:07 PM Jeff Scott via KRnet <>

> A few months would be about the right timing.  I started using this
> particular station/blend (Murphy Oil, Ash Flat, AR) in March or April.  In
> July, I suddenly had failures in my fueling rig and multiple leaks in the
> fuel tanks and fuel system in one plane.  The other plane only shows
> etching of the (hirshman) slosh compound in the tanks.
> The fueling rig and my planes have been running on Mogas from a single
> source in NM for many years.  Never saw any sign of degradation to the
> fueling rig or the fuel systems on the planes.  The problem is that all we
> can test for is presence of Alcohol.  I tested each 100 gallon load of fuel
> purchased, and tested the fuel after draining it back out of the planes.
> No alcohol was present.  I don't know what was blended with this fuel to
> cause the damage, so don't know how to test or ask other vendors about
> their fuels.  Testing by putting the integrity of my fuel systems at risk
> is folly.  That effectively renders Mogas unsafe for me to use in the
> future.
> Thanks for the research and discussion.
> -Jeff Scott
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 at 10:49 PM
> From: "Jeff York via KRnet" <>
> To: KRnet <>
> Cc: "Jeff York" <>
> Subject: Re: KR> Mogas Blues.
> Jeff Scott,
> As promised I was finally able to run down my next door neighbor from
> Valvoline.
> Im going to try and glean this down as,we talked about your situation for
> over an hour. He said that the mogas you started using just since April
> could not by itself have compromised your fuel system. He said that they
> sold to Marathon a few years back but that only a few refineries exsist in
> the USA. About 6 or so. That they, Marathon and most refiners refine just
> gas and that the additives are put in at the blending station at the time
> the tanker truck is filling. That blending stations contain the additives
> per the brands specifications. Now, not knowing the additives of the
> different mogas locations or brands you used or the state requirements and
> differences between the two different states you bought your mogas, he is
> not sure of your mogas formula which even same brand in two different
> states could make for different additive blends of the same brand. All this
> said, he thinks your fuel system when it was introduced to mogas from a
> different state had a different additive that reacted to the compromised
> fuel system resulting in you fuel system break downs. He said this takes
> considerable time but cautioned aircraft with fuel systems that are not
> using fuel components not capable of ethanol may be subject to fuel
> contamination or damage when flown on a cross country and the different
> blend bought at a different state or location may result in an issue. But,
> he thinks the issue would not be immediate. Hense it took a few months for
> your issues to arise. I hope I explained that correctly.
> Jeff York
> On Sat, Aug 4, 2018, 8:36 PM Jeff Scott via KRnet <>
> wrote:
> > After years of running Mogas in both the O-200 in my KR, and the O-320 in
> > my SuperCub, I have run into a particularly nasty bunch of Mogas after
> > moving to Arkansas. In NM, I had a good source for alcohol free premium
> > Mogas and burned it for years with no issues at all. But after moving to
> a
> > new area, other than testing for alcohol, how does one verify that the
> > mogas being sold is free of any detrimental chemicals?
> >
> > In April I started running a new brand of premium Mogas (everything where
> > I moved is new to me). Testing for Alcohol showed it to be alcohol free.
> > This summer I was away from the planes for a few weeks. When I got back
> to
> > them, the flow meter on my fueling rig had failed (plastic gear that runs
> > submerged in fuel failed), there were several leaks in my fueling rig,
> > including the fuel nozzle and the hoses. At the same time, both tanks in
> > my supercub developed leaks and the O-rings in my primer failed. I'm not
> > sure what kind of additive is in this fuel, but whatever it is dissolves
> > epoxy, pipe dopes, and damages neoprene rubber. Impressive. I was in a
> > real panic as I had been running this stuff in both planes.
> >
> > I have spent the last 2 weeks working on the fueling rig and the planes,
> > and trying to assess the damage to the planes. What I found is, the epoxy
> > tanks in the SuperCub are both compromised and leaking at points where
> > there were penetrations through the tanks for various plumbing parts like
> > the fuel drains and fuel pickups. I will have to cut the tanks open and
> > repair from the inside, which will give me a chance to better assess the
> > damage. Additionally, the O-rings in my 2 year old primer failed. New
> > O-rings and some fuel lube fixed the primer problem.
> >
> > The fueling rig in my truck (12V fuel pump, flow meter, filter assy, and
> > fuel nozzle all mounted to a 110G steel tank) had to have new hoses, the
> > 1-1/2 and 2 inch piping had to be dismantled and put back together with
> new
> > pipe dope. The fuel meter had to be replaced. And the fuel nozzle needs
> > new O-rings.
> >
> > I drained the tanks on the KR, which are also epoxy, but were sloshed
> with
> > an alcohol resistant slosh compound 22 years ago. Upon inspection I can
> > see that the fuel etched the surface of the slosh compound, but I can't
> > find any peeling or flaking compound; and I have no leaks. So at least
> the
> > KR is OK for now.
> >
> > Not looking for advice, but am putting this out there for discussion. I'd
> > love to hear ideas about how one verifies that the fuel is good other
> than
> > testing for alcohol. I don't need to hear about the wonders of vinylester
> > as that was an unknown at the time my KR was built, and the tanks in the
> > Cub were already built when I bought the project.
> >
> > For now, the KR is still flyable. But it is unlikely I'll complete the
> > fuel tank and wing repairs to the SuperCub before late fall.
> >
> > -Jeff Scott
> > Cherokee Village, AR
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