On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:50 AM, Harald Sitter <[email protected]> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Valorie Zimmerman > <[email protected]> wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:34 AM, Harald Sitter <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Valorie Zimmerman >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Harald Sitter <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Valorie Zimmerman >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Harald Sitter <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:47 AM, Jonathan Riddell <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 02, 2015 at 12:13:37AM -0800, Valorie Zimmerman wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 4:17 AM, Jonathan Riddell <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > writing the status here before we forget it.. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > scarlett kindy did the backports of kf5 into utopic using the >>>>>>>>> > kubuntu-ninjas >>>>>>>>> > PPA (after some faff failing to get the kubuntu-next/staging ppa to >>>>>>>>> > accept >>>>>>>>> > them) >>>>>>>>> > they were copied to kubuntu-ppa/next but then we had reports of >>>>>>>>> > them causing >>>>>>>>> > failed upgrades so they were deleted >>>>>>>>> > I tidied up the backport of kglobalaccel which was breaking the >>>>>>>>> > upgrades >>>>>>>>> > Now when I try to copy them over to kubuntu-ppa/next it complains >>>>>>>>> > there is >>>>>>>>> > already that version of the package in kubuntu-ppa/next even though >>>>>>>>> > there is >>>>>>>>> > not >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > if someone has the energy for it they can bump the version numbers >>>>>>>>> > in the >>>>>>>>> > packages in kubuntu-ninjas and get them all to compile again them >>>>>>>>> > copy them >>>>>>>>> > to kubuntu-ppa/next. But i'm mostly out of energy for it :( >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Jonathan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are we actually supporting next and next-backports for 14.10? My >>>>>>>>> broken system makes it appear that we are not. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I suggest that we remove the notice about those in the KDE wiki, and >>>>>>>>> suggest people either use one of the ISOs for 14.10 or install Beta 1 >>>>>>>>> Vivid. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've never had an upgrade leave me unable to login to KDE before. Not >>>>>>>>> a good experience. I know that the next and next-backports are testing >>>>>>>>> material, so I was fairly warned. But we've run out of time to support >>>>>>>>> them, so let's cut our losses and put our energy into Vivid. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This sounds like a realistic idea to me. We don't seem to have the >>>>>>>> energy needed for a kf5 backport, we've said there won't be an upgrade >>>>>>>> root for 14.10 plasma5 to 15.04, so we'd be perfectly ok it's just a >>>>>>>> tech preview and it won't get any better. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> how does one prevent the user from upgrading if they have next packages? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> HS >>>>>> >>>>>> The user will be unable to upgrade, if my experience is at all common. >>>>>> If there are no updates, they won't be tempted to, right? >>>>> >>>>> They will be able to upgrade to 15.04. It just will break their system. >>>>> >>>>>> We warned next users long ago that upgrade to 15.04 would not be >>>>>> supported. >>>>> >>>>> That's my point. We didn't. We warned people who read our web >>>>> resources (website, wiki wherever we put that information). If a user >>>>> got information on installing plasma5 from a third party they will >>>>> most certainly not have gotten this warning (in part because we >>>>> weren't pushing it a lot). In fact even if they used our board tools >>>>> (add-apt-repository) to add the PPA they would not have been informed >>>>> of the support status of the PPA as the description says nothing about >>>>> support [1]. >>>>> So all those users know is that they re running plasma5. At some point >>>>> they'll be prompted to upgrade to 15.04 and then things will go boom >>>>> and the users will get pissed off and complain somewhere about the >>>>> shitty upgrade and then whoever they complained to will get pissed off >>>>> because 3 million people all complain about the same thing and then we >>>>> will get pissed off for having blown up innocent systems. >>>>> >>>>>> What I'm advocating is no more upgrades in next or next >>>>>> backports in 14.10 either. >>>>> >>>>> Less work is always fine with me ;) >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next >>>> >>>> Perhaps we need to start spreading the word in various places. Any >>>> suggestions about what to say, and where, and how often? >>> >>> What I think is that the upgrader probably should go "can't upgrade, >>> your setup is not supported" and then either point to a webpage that >>> explains how to best go about solving this without a reinstall, or >>> perhaps better yet have the installer ppa-purge next and >>> next-backports and then upgrade. >> >> PPA-purge was the first thing I did, but that did not leave my >> computer bootable. Perhaps it works, though, if the KDE login hasn't >> already been corrupted, or whatever-it-was that happened. > > What I imagine is slightly more complicated than that. > It would remove *all* packages related to the PPA [i.e. purge] which > will intentionally render the system broken. It would then install > kubuntu-desktop restoring a kdelibs4 package lineup and upgrade from > that. So essentially systems that have next packages installed get > automatically downgraded to kdelibs4 for the purpose of the upgrade. > This is some 99% reliable approach and for the 1% where it doesn't > work they would need to reinstall anyway or repair their system > manually as other foreign packages are interfering with the upgrade. > > Result being the user not having to reinstall. > > Problem is, I most certainly don't have time to implement this. Also > not really interested. So I think the cheapest way to handle this is > to make the upgrader warn and exit when plasma-desktop and > plasma-workspace are installed and point to a wiki page detailing how > one does what I described above manually. > > HS
For now, shall I remove all advice to use next in https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Packages#Kubuntu which is where we always point people? That wiki page should be prominent in our https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu space, I'm thinking. Since this is a matter of policy, can the rest of the council speak up please? Valorie -- http://about.me/valoriez -- kubuntu-devel mailing list [email protected] Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
