I have posted about this on Talk:Language committee now: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_committee#Approval_of_the_Moroccan_Amazigh_Wikipedia
tor. 12. okt. 2023 kl. 22:44 skrev Tochi Precious <[email protected] >: > I actually went through it this afternoon and saw how engaged and active > it has been for 3 years. I recommend the approval. > > --- > Tochi > > On Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 2:23 PM Jon Harald Søby <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello folks, >> >> I would like to suggest the approval of this test wiki. Any objections? >> Anass can surely verify the content personally, I don't think we need any >> external verification in this case. >> >> lør. 26. aug. 2023 kl. 12:48 skrev Gerard Meijssen < >> [email protected]>: >> >>> Hoi, >>> There may be some who consider languages in the Arabic family as >>> ineligible. This is not the case, one example is the Egyptian Arabic >>> Wikipedia. The notion that everyone who speaks one kind of Arabic >>> understands every other version of Arabic is wrong. >>> >>> There are many languages derived from Arabic, all have their own ISO >>> code they may all have their own dialects. The notion of politics is >>> EXACTLY why many people want to standardise on one Arabic Wikipedia. >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 at 02:56, Sotiale Wiki <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi. >>>> >>>> Standard Arabic is arb (Arabic: ara) and still if someone posts a new >>>> language request for Wp/arb, it won't be eligible. Unless the speakers of >>>> Arabic Wikipedia are unable to communicate in Standard Arabic. But I don't >>>> think there's any reason a native speaker of Arabic can't speak Standard >>>> Arabic. So there is no reason for existing Arabic Wikipedia to be >>>> disqualified for this reason, but even so, the Arabic Wikipedia was created >>>> prior to the LPP and is therefore unaffected. >>>> >>>> The requirement to be a distinct language is to ensure that there are >>>> no multiple Wikipedias for a language that is sufficiently communicative at >>>> the dialect level equivalent(If this were incomprehensible to native >>>> speakers, it would have been recognized as a separate language). In >>>> general, these branches are likely for political reasons, which may be >>>> on-wiki as well as off-wiki reasons. This permission of Wikipedia >>>> jeopardizes NPOV by creating Wikipedia with different views of the same >>>> language for that purpose. Even if it has no such purpose, it is likely to >>>> be abused as such. >>>> >>>> Sotiale >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> >>>> 바이러스가 >>>> 없습니다.www.avast.com >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> >>>> <#m_-3835623023056331121_m_-681473850486263020_m_922395621415868508_m_8888600196279916464_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>> >>>> 2023년 8월 26일 (토) 오전 3:32, Anass Sedrati <[email protected]>님이 작성: >>>> >>>>> Hello Sotiale and thank you for your answer, >>>>> >>>>> Sorry for my late reply as I was travelling back from Singapore and >>>>> had also other engagements. >>>>> >>>>> So regarding your argumentation, if you consider zgh not a distinct >>>>> language "because it is just a standard representation of Berber >>>>> languages", then we have also to consider standard Arabic (ISO >>>>> 639:ara) not a distinct language because it is not spoken in any >>>>> country/region and is "a standard representation of Arabic languages". Of >>>>> course, there are many more sources and books in standard Arabic due to >>>>> religious and historical reasons, but it is still a standardized language, >>>>> and only a written one. This said, it will of course never be considered >>>>> to >>>>> close the Arabic Wikipedia because of it. Therefore, it can be really >>>>> tricky to base the decisions on this argument, although it is >>>>> understandable that some languages are "bigger" or more established than >>>>> others. What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Anass >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 3:08 PM MF-Warburg <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> NB: there has also been a discussion at < >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Moroccan_Amazigh#Clerking_note>. >>>>>> I believe there are several requests open for related languages. It would >>>>>> be good to have some clarity to avoid the community being split into >>>>>> multiple incubator test-wikis. >>>>>> >>>>>> Am Fr., 18. Aug. 2023 um 14:38 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki < >>>>>> [email protected]>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your kind explanation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If this can be understood as the relationship between Standard >>>>>>> Arabic (ISO 639:arb) and Arabic (ISO 639:ara), then zgh is not a >>>>>>> distinct >>>>>>> language because it is just a standard representation of Berber >>>>>>> languages. This is true even in light of the current LPP, which excludes >>>>>>> different written forms of any language. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Therefore, it seems that eligibility for this language cannot be >>>>>>> recognized. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sotiale >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2023년 8월 16일 (수) 오후 10:48, Anass Sedrati <[email protected]>님이 작성: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am very familiar with this case as I come myself from Morocco and >>>>>>>> speak Berber. The standard Tamazight ( >>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Moroccan_Amazigh) is not a >>>>>>>> spoken language, but only a written one. It was created by the official >>>>>>>> Academy of Berber languages in Morocco ( >>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Institute_of_Amazigh_Culture) >>>>>>>> in an attempt to standardize the Berber languages, as there are many of >>>>>>>> them spoken in Morocco ( >>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_languages). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So to answer you, standard Tamazight is exactly like modern >>>>>>>> standard Arabic ( >>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Standard_Arabic). It is a >>>>>>>> standardized language with rules, but not a spoken one (nobody speaks >>>>>>>> standard Arabic as a mother tongue, every Arab country has its own >>>>>>>> dialect). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is to explain that even if it not native, Zgh can be treated >>>>>>>> as modern standard Arabic in terms of linguistics. I hope that this >>>>>>>> gives a >>>>>>>> bit of context, but I am happy to expand on any aspect if you have >>>>>>>> additional questions! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anass >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 3:00 PM Sotiale Wiki <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not familiar with the Moroccan languages, so I'd love to hear >>>>>>>>> from other colleagues. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm considering this language project as a potential candidate for >>>>>>>>> approval, but I'm wondering if this is a standardization of other >>>>>>>>> languages, or a distinct language from others? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Since this site[1] states that there are no native speakers, I >>>>>>>>> wondered if this was just standardization of other languages(the case >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> native speakers have a standardized language while using their own >>>>>>>>> languages). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [1] https://www.ethnologue.com/language/zgh/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sotiale >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> >>>>>>>>> 바이러스가 >>>>>>>>> 없습니다.www.avast.com >>>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> >>>>>>>>> <#m_-3835623023056331121_m_-681473850486263020_m_922395621415868508_m_8888600196279916464_m_3445872535440906073_m_5983961874573513948_m_-52777032840040729_m_-1496450384923849562_m_5794971244151197459_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> *Anass SEDRATI* >>>>>>>> *(+46) 70 508 51 07* >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- >>>>> *Anass SEDRATI* >>>>> *(+46) 70 508 51 07* >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> >> >> >> -- >> mvh >> Jon Harald Søby >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > -- mvh Jon Harald Søby
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