I don't understand the distinction you are making between "Arabic" and
"Standard Arabic" here.

If anything, a written standard form of a language/macrolanguage/dialect
continuum is very suitable for having a Wikipedia, precisely because it can
unite the efforts of mutually understandable projects into one wiki instead
of many.


Sotiale Wiki <[email protected]> schrieb am Sa., 26. Aug. 2023, 02:56:

> Hi.
>
> Standard Arabic is arb (Arabic: ara) and still if someone posts a new
> language request for Wp/arb, it won't be eligible. Unless the speakers of
> Arabic Wikipedia are unable to communicate in Standard Arabic. But I don't
> think there's any reason a native speaker of Arabic can't speak Standard
> Arabic. So there is no reason for existing Arabic Wikipedia to be
> disqualified for this reason, but even so, the Arabic Wikipedia was created
> prior to the LPP and is therefore unaffected.
>
> The requirement to be a distinct language is to ensure that there are no
> multiple Wikipedias for a language that is sufficiently communicative at
> the dialect level equivalent(If this were incomprehensible to native
> speakers, it would have been recognized as a separate language). In
> general, these branches are likely for political reasons, which may be
> on-wiki as well as off-wiki reasons. This permission of Wikipedia
> jeopardizes NPOV by creating Wikipedia with different views of the same
> language for that purpose. Even if it has no such purpose, it is likely to
> be abused as such.
>
> Sotiale
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
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> 없습니다.www.avast.com
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>
> 2023년 8월 26일 (토) 오전 3:32, Anass Sedrati <[email protected]>님이 작성:
>
>> Hello Sotiale and thank you for your answer,
>>
>> Sorry for my late reply as I was travelling back from Singapore and had
>> also other engagements.
>>
>> So regarding your argumentation, if you consider zgh not a distinct
>> language "because it is just a standard representation of Berber
>> languages", then we have also to consider standard Arabic (ISO 639:ara)
>> not a distinct language because it is not spoken in any country/region and
>> is "a standard representation of Arabic languages". Of course, there are
>> many more sources and books in standard Arabic due to religious and
>> historical reasons, but it is still a standardized language, and only a
>> written one. This said, it will of course never be considered to close the
>> Arabic Wikipedia because of it. Therefore, it can be really tricky to base
>> the decisions on this argument, although it is understandable that some
>> languages are "bigger" or more established than others. What do you think?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Anass
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 3:08 PM MF-Warburg <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> NB: there has also been a discussion at <
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Moroccan_Amazigh#Clerking_note>.
>>> I believe there are several requests open for related languages. It would
>>> be good to have some clarity to avoid the community being split into
>>> multiple incubator test-wikis.
>>>
>>> Am Fr., 18. Aug. 2023 um 14:38 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki <
>>> [email protected]>:
>>>
>>>> Thank you for your kind explanation.
>>>>
>>>> If this can be understood as the relationship between Standard Arabic
>>>> (ISO 639:arb) and Arabic (ISO 639:ara), then zgh is not a distinct language
>>>> because it is just a standard representation of Berber languages. This is
>>>> true even in light of the current LPP, which excludes different written
>>>> forms of any language.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, it seems that eligibility for this language cannot be
>>>> recognized.
>>>>
>>>> Sotiale
>>>>
>>>> 2023년 8월 16일 (수) 오후 10:48, Anass Sedrati <[email protected]>님이 작성:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am very familiar with this case as I come myself from Morocco and
>>>>> speak Berber. The standard Tamazight (
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Moroccan_Amazigh) is not a
>>>>> spoken language, but only a written one. It was created by the official
>>>>> Academy of Berber languages in Morocco (
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Institute_of_Amazigh_Culture) in
>>>>> an attempt to standardize the Berber languages, as there are many of them
>>>>> spoken in Morocco (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_languages).
>>>>>
>>>>> So to answer you, standard Tamazight is exactly like modern standard
>>>>> Arabic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Standard_Arabic). It is
>>>>> a standardized language with rules, but not a spoken one (nobody speaks
>>>>> standard Arabic as a mother tongue, every Arab country has its own 
>>>>> dialect).
>>>>>
>>>>> This is to explain that even if it not native, Zgh can be treated as
>>>>> modern standard Arabic in terms of linguistics. I hope that this gives a
>>>>> bit of context, but I am happy to expand on any aspect if you have
>>>>> additional questions!
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Anass
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 3:00 PM Sotiale Wiki <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not familiar with the Moroccan languages, so I'd love to hear
>>>>>> from other colleagues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm considering this language project as a potential candidate for
>>>>>> approval, but I'm wondering if this is a standardization of other
>>>>>> languages, or a distinct language from others?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since this site[1] states that there are no native speakers, I
>>>>>> wondered if this was just standardization of other languages(the case 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> native speakers have a standardized language while using their own
>>>>>> languages).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://www.ethnologue.com/language/zgh/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sotiale
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *Anass SEDRATI*
>>>>> *(+46) 70 508 51 07*
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>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>> *Anass SEDRATI*
>> *(+46) 70 508 51 07*
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