Hello folks, I would like to suggest the approval of this test wiki. Any objections? Anass can surely verify the content personally, I don't think we need any external verification in this case.
lør. 26. aug. 2023 kl. 12:48 skrev Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>: > Hoi, > There may be some who consider languages in the Arabic family as > ineligible. This is not the case, one example is the Egyptian Arabic > Wikipedia. The notion that everyone who speaks one kind of Arabic > understands every other version of Arabic is wrong. > > There are many languages derived from Arabic, all have their own ISO code > they may all have their own dialects. The notion of politics is EXACTLY why > many people want to standardise on one Arabic Wikipedia. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 at 02:56, Sotiale Wiki <sotiale...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi. >> >> Standard Arabic is arb (Arabic: ara) and still if someone posts a new >> language request for Wp/arb, it won't be eligible. Unless the speakers of >> Arabic Wikipedia are unable to communicate in Standard Arabic. But I don't >> think there's any reason a native speaker of Arabic can't speak Standard >> Arabic. So there is no reason for existing Arabic Wikipedia to be >> disqualified for this reason, but even so, the Arabic Wikipedia was created >> prior to the LPP and is therefore unaffected. >> >> The requirement to be a distinct language is to ensure that there are no >> multiple Wikipedias for a language that is sufficiently communicative at >> the dialect level equivalent(If this were incomprehensible to native >> speakers, it would have been recognized as a separate language). In >> general, these branches are likely for political reasons, which may be >> on-wiki as well as off-wiki reasons. This permission of Wikipedia >> jeopardizes NPOV by creating Wikipedia with different views of the same >> language for that purpose. Even if it has no such purpose, it is likely to >> be abused as such. >> >> Sotiale >> >> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> >> 바이러스가 >> 없습니다.www.avast.com >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> >> <#m_922395621415868508_m_8888600196279916464_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> >> 2023년 8월 26일 (토) 오전 3:32, Anass Sedrati <sedra...@gmail.com>님이 작성: >> >>> Hello Sotiale and thank you for your answer, >>> >>> Sorry for my late reply as I was travelling back from Singapore and had >>> also other engagements. >>> >>> So regarding your argumentation, if you consider zgh not a distinct >>> language "because it is just a standard representation of Berber >>> languages", then we have also to consider standard Arabic (ISO 639:ara) >>> not a distinct language because it is not spoken in any country/region and >>> is "a standard representation of Arabic languages". Of course, there are >>> many more sources and books in standard Arabic due to religious and >>> historical reasons, but it is still a standardized language, and only a >>> written one. This said, it will of course never be considered to close the >>> Arabic Wikipedia because of it. Therefore, it can be really tricky to base >>> the decisions on this argument, although it is understandable that some >>> languages are "bigger" or more established than others. What do you think? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Anass >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 3:08 PM MF-Warburg <mfwarb...@googlemail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> NB: there has also been a discussion at < >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Moroccan_Amazigh#Clerking_note>. >>>> I believe there are several requests open for related languages. It would >>>> be good to have some clarity to avoid the community being split into >>>> multiple incubator test-wikis. >>>> >>>> Am Fr., 18. Aug. 2023 um 14:38 Uhr schrieb Sotiale Wiki < >>>> sotiale...@gmail.com>: >>>> >>>>> Thank you for your kind explanation. >>>>> >>>>> If this can be understood as the relationship between Standard Arabic >>>>> (ISO 639:arb) and Arabic (ISO 639:ara), then zgh is not a distinct >>>>> language >>>>> because it is just a standard representation of Berber languages. This is >>>>> true even in light of the current LPP, which excludes different written >>>>> forms of any language. >>>>> >>>>> Therefore, it seems that eligibility for this language cannot be >>>>> recognized. >>>>> >>>>> Sotiale >>>>> >>>>> 2023년 8월 16일 (수) 오후 10:48, Anass Sedrati <sedra...@gmail.com>님이 작성: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am very familiar with this case as I come myself from Morocco and >>>>>> speak Berber. The standard Tamazight ( >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Moroccan_Amazigh) is not a >>>>>> spoken language, but only a written one. It was created by the official >>>>>> Academy of Berber languages in Morocco ( >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Institute_of_Amazigh_Culture) in >>>>>> an attempt to standardize the Berber languages, as there are many of them >>>>>> spoken in Morocco (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_languages). >>>>>> >>>>>> So to answer you, standard Tamazight is exactly like modern standard >>>>>> Arabic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Standard_Arabic). It is >>>>>> a standardized language with rules, but not a spoken one (nobody speaks >>>>>> standard Arabic as a mother tongue, every Arab country has its own >>>>>> dialect). >>>>>> >>>>>> This is to explain that even if it not native, Zgh can be treated as >>>>>> modern standard Arabic in terms of linguistics. I hope that this gives a >>>>>> bit of context, but I am happy to expand on any aspect if you have >>>>>> additional questions! >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Anass >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 3:00 PM Sotiale Wiki <sotiale...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not familiar with the Moroccan languages, so I'd love to hear >>>>>>> from other colleagues. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm considering this language project as a potential candidate for >>>>>>> approval, but I'm wondering if this is a standardization of other >>>>>>> languages, or a distinct language from others? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since this site[1] states that there are no native speakers, I >>>>>>> wondered if this was just standardization of other languages(the case >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> native speakers have a standardized language while using their own >>>>>>> languages). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] https://www.ethnologue.com/language/zgh/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sotiale >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> >>>>>>> 바이러스가 >>>>>>> 없습니다.www.avast.com >>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> >>>>>>> <#m_922395621415868508_m_8888600196279916464_m_3445872535440906073_m_5983961874573513948_m_-52777032840040729_m_-1496450384923849562_m_5794971244151197459_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> *Anass SEDRATI* >>>>>> *(+46) 70 508 51 07* >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ----------------------------------------------------- >>> *Anass SEDRATI* >>> *(+46) 70 508 51 07* >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > -- mvh Jon Harald Søby
_______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list -- langcom@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to langcom-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
