Your logic, Eric, is a bit….errrrrm, a bit in the nature of through-the-looking-glass. Buddhist Symbol --> Nazi Symbol = Dieudonne --> Anelka. So, the fact that we don't blame the Buddhists for the Nazi atrocities would analogize to not blaming Dieudonne for Anelka's actions. And I don't blame Dieudonne for Anelka's actions.
The analogy does NOT mean that we shouldn't attribute anti-semitism to Anelka. Michael A. Gardiner LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL A. GARDINER 110 West “A” Street, Suite 950 San Diego, CA 92101 Phone: 619.238.9800 Fax: 619.814.3727 E-mail: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission, including any attachments, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for review by the party to whom it is addressed. It may contain attorney client or attorney work product privileged and confidential information. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this e-mail, including any attachments, without reading or saving them in any manner. Unintended transmission shall not constitute waiver of the attorney-client or any other privilege. On Jan 22, 2014, at 4:11 PM, Eric B <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: The point is that that Buddhism is represented by a symbol that has since been tarnished by the nazis. Similar to the quenelle. So long we dont hold Buddhism responsible for the swastika now being a nazi symbol logic dictates that Anelka cannot be held responsible for the the quenelle being a nazi symbol, for some, not for all. Never heard of the CoPO but I understand where you re coming from. That is why I mentioned ancient roman laws. On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Michael Gardiner <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Last I heard, Eric, Buddha (a) wasn't anti-semitic and (b) didn't wear that anti-semitism on his sleeve. Nor was he -- nor are Buddhists -- widely considered to be anti-semitic. Anelka may (or may not) be uniquely qualified to speak to Anelka's true intentions…but he is also in a position where it would be uniquely unlikely that he would state those true intentions. As for the burden of proof being on me -- not on your life. The Court of Public Opinion does not work that way. Once an accusation is made in the CoPO the burden of proof is ALWAYS on the accused. Michael A. Gardiner LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL A. GARDINER 110 West “A” Street, Suite 950 San Diego, CA 92101 Phone: 619.238.9800 Fax: 619.814.3727 E-mail: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission, including any attachments, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for review by the party to whom it is addressed. It may contain attorney client or attorney work product privileged and confidential information. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this e-mail, including any attachments, without reading or saving them in any manner. Unintended transmission shall not constitute waiver of the attorney-client or any other privilege. On Jan 22, 2014, at 3:50 PM, Eric B <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: "Only those who are (a) ignorant, (b) in denial or (c) who don't mind anti-semitism but don't want that label attached to them suggest otherwise." If I was to disregard personal interpretations of a symbol I would have to assume Buddhists are one or the other of the above that you mention. What are your thoughts on that? Personally I wouldnt go that far as to judge another man, without proof I might add, that I dont know in such a harsh way. I ve been around plenty of places in asia where the "swastika" is in use. Are those that enter the temples with the symbol all nazi worshippers? Noone is better qualified than the idiot Anelka to know what his real intentions were at the time he did what he did. The rest is just guesswork, assumptions, opinions and whatever else. Hell, Im guessing too! You might want to call Anelka a liar but the burden of proof is on you. Accusing others of this and that has been used and abused through centuries and even as far back as roman time laws were in place to protect the individual from empty talk: Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat "Proof lies on him who asserts, not on him who denies" On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:16 AM, Michael Gardiner <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I don't know whether the quenelle was anti-semitic in origin -- though the fact that it was the highly anti-semitic French "comedian" Dieudonne (arrested today for firing a rubber bullet at two bailiffs who tried to serve papers on him) who created it strongly suggests that it was -- but it is absolutely clear that it is anti-semitic now. Only those who are (a) ignorant, (b) in denial or (c) who don't mind anti-semitism but don't want that label attached to them suggest otherwise. Michael A. Gardiner LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL A. GARDINER 110 West “A” Street, Suite 950 San Diego, CA 92101 Phone: 619.238.9800 Fax: 619.814.3727 E-mail: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission, including any attachments, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for review by the party to whom it is addressed. It may contain attorney client or attorney work product privileged and confidential information. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this e-mail, including any attachments, without reading or saving them in any manner. Unintended transmission shall not constitute waiver of the attorney-client or any other privilege. On Jan 22, 2014, at 4:00 AM, [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Send Leedslist mailing list submissions to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Leedslist digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: NONLU: bloody hell..... (Eric B) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 21:10:28 +1100 From: Eric B <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: Nigel Goodman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: leedslist <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [LU] NONLU: bloody hell..... Message-ID: <CAEp-J1TExuuas252-XoaRryhM=x+dn9xzd_wdjqwcmmodw4...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:x%[email protected]>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 it runs both ways I read. I too thought it was the opposite way initially. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Nigel Goodman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Isn't the Buddhist one the other way round ? On 22/01/2014, at 8:15 AM, Ian Murray wrote: The swatstika was originally a symbol of Buddhism. Get a massive one painted on your car and see what happens. Sent from my iPhone On 22 Jan 2014, at 8:02, "Eric B" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Cheers Damian. My points exactly. Both the "inventor" of the gesture and Anelka said its an anti-establishment genture (hear hear Ian M.) however its been taken by others and over time turned into something else. I read some guy stating its an inverted nazi salute but wouldnt that be taking your left arm and put it down and backwards making you look like an arse. The quenelle is certainly not the opposite of a raise right arm. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Damian Walsh <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote: I'm convinced that it is anti-semitic. Now - but probably not at the start. An example of the vacuum-effect you inevitably have when people are not allowed to have a rational debate about open sores on the body politic: Statesman - I really feel unconfortable about the Israeli State's policies of occupation, repression and assasination Sophist - You evil anti-semitic bastid, to even think in those terms makes you a Nazi Statesman - I'll just keep quiet then and leave the ongoing debate to suicide bombers and their ilk Socrates - No one desires evil Sophist - K'off you Nazi Cnut, you will burn in hell like all those who don't accept my own vision of what is right and just Or, unfortunately, something very similar...... Damian On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Joe Skinner < [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote: Forget about all the noise about whether the gesture is racist or not. An inverted Nazi salute is never a great idea (is the real one banned, like swastikas?). He did in in 'support' of his 'mate', a comedian (who is variously at best/worst, a racist, anti-semite or anti-zionist) who was/is being banned for continual use of said gesture. [How can you ban a comedian?] Whether he thinks he's being anti-establishment for using it, he's a tit. Anelka is an even bigger tit or at best, dim witted and a moron for thinking he'd get away with it or face no consequences. _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> John 'Grampa' Sykes Rest In Peace old lad 28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013 MARCHING ON TOGETHER _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> John 'Grampa' Sykes Rest In Peace old lad 28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013 MARCHING ON TOGETHER _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> John 'Grampa' Sykes Rest In Peace old lad 28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013 MARCHING ON TOGETHER _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> John 'Grampa' Sykes Rest In Peace old lad 28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013 MARCHING ON TOGETHER ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> John 'Grampa' Sykes 28 Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013 Rest in peace old lad MARCHING ON TOGETHER End of Leedslist Digest, Vol 43, Issue 54 ***************************************** _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> John 'Grampa' Sykes Rest In Peace old lad 28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013 MARCHING ON TOGETHER _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected] John 'Grampa' Sykes Rest In Peace old lad 28th Oct 1938 - 12 Nov 2013 MARCHING ON TOGETHER
