On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 5:24 AM, Jesse Aldridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Perhaps the problem is that these organizations are run by ivory tower
> intellectuals

I doubt this characterization applies to all.

> And do we not have control over society?

We have some control, but not total control.  In some situations,
individuals (leaders) make a huge difference; in others, they get
swept along in unstoppable tides.

> Have you ever tried to change it?  I mean *really* tried?

No. I don't see a way to make this project possible.  And I like my
life as it is.

> First, there's always colonizing space, isn't there?

Those who want to colonize Mars must explain why colonizing Mars would
be easier than colonizing the Gobi Desert.  Colonizing space, say at
the Lagrangian points between the earth and the moon is intriguing,
but far more difficult than solving earth's problems on earth.

It would be tragic to ruin the earth on the preposterous assumption
that we could easily move somewhere else.  Earth is, by far, the most
hospitable environment for life anywhere within a light year of us.
We ruin earth; we ruin ourselves.

> Second, "negative growth in population" sound like one hell of euphemism. :)

People do tend to object to any notion that more people might not be a
good thing.  At the same time, they deny the essential aspects of
Malthusian theory.  Before you dismiss that theory, you must
understand that denying it implies denying Darwinian evolution, and
denying Darwin's theory marks one as an intellectual incompetent.

The essential point is that growth will *inevitably* run up to limits
that will curtail that growth in extremely nasty ways.  There is no
way to twist around that inconvenient truth.  It is clear to me that
we humans are already *way* past the point of sustainability.  The
mass extinction of species caused by habitat destruction is proof
enough.

> I guess the key is somehow obtaining enough evidence and presenting it
> in such a way that people cannot effectively dispute it.

People effectively dispute the existence of the Holocaust, evolution,
global warming, and many other indisputable facts. We've still got
bozos who believe abstinence is an effective birth control measure for
teenagers.  One of them is in the White House, and has, for the last 8
years, limited the world-wide distribution of condoms.

Edward

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