and bzr, of course. All those things. On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Seth Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > You know, I bet somebody could go into the git and cvs code and > probably pretty easily offer patches to those projects that would, > when a suitable option was set somehow, hide Leo sentinels. Is that > the only problem? Are we just trying to create a sentinel-less Leo > option just for that reason? Why not just fix git and cvs and the > rest? That seems the least effort path to making all of Leo-dom happy > and the broader world too. > > Just find somebody who knows those code bases well enough, or is > willing to read them. The patch would probably be really easy. > > Seth > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> El 07/07/11 10:54, Edward K. Ream escribió: >>> As the history of Leo page shows, I have declared Leo to be "complete" >>> once or twice before, only to have fundamentally significant >>> improvements show up. >>> >>> At present, Leo does more than I ever dreamed possible, and Terry >>> continues to improve and generalize Leo's user interface. This state >>> of affairs, somewhat ironically, seems to have the effect of inviting >>> me to imaging even more fundamental improvements to Leo. >>> >>> Several ideas have been swirling around in the old bean lately: >>> >>> 1. I have recently been reminded of how cool the SmallTalk >>> environment is. >>> >> >> This is kind of strange synchrony (again) with my inquiries and the Leo >> word. I have been away of this list for a while when I was in my >> immersion in the Smalltalk/Pharo[1] world when I found [2]Moose software >> analysis tool and it kind of remind me Leo. My plan now is to use >> Pharo/Moose and Python/Leo pair to pair to see some cross-pollination >> between the ideas of both. >> >> [1] http://www.pharo-project.org/ >> [2] http://www.moosetechnology.org/ >> >> For me Smalltalk word has tried to build a comprehensive discourse about >> informatics, one that, in words of Alan Kay, is trying to go from >> "cooper to the user", from virtual machines, to user interfaces. In this >> intend they develop a self described deeply interactive system in a >> uniform objectual discourse. Now with tools like Moose, they're using >> this environment to bring light about other software constructs of >> informatics. For me Leo is an alternative approach for the same problem. >> I'm not a programmer, but the use of outlines and clones to organize my >> information is this kind of proto-discourse about my interaction with >> the computer in tree form. Now I plan to "live inside Leo" for most of >> my projects to see how much of this discourse can be build and how Leo >> can help me to bootstrap understanding in dealing with complexity of >> heterogeneous computer systems. Sorry if, for the moment, this sound >> kind of abstract, but this is the kind of thinking that Leo/Smalltalk >> provokes and invites in me, and I will give more concrete details about >> the projects after. >> >>> 2. Thinking about lint and program analysis leads me to think of Leo >>> as a platform for new kinds of programming tools. >> >> I'm agree. Caliopy is an example of this kind of new programming tools, >> an also I think that the 5.0 with the attempt to bring more users needs >> to "think outside the box" of programmers and think in a more general >> user (something like caliopy for structural engineers but thinking in a >> wider audience). Long before I talked about Scrivender[3] as a proposed >> interface and the work of Terry stretching the interface possibilities >> of Leo and Ville's and Kent's work on using and abstracting VCS, as the >> talks about a one-click install and execution are putting the parts >> together for this 5.0 release and the intend for a wider audience. For >> me is quite interesting how non-programmers stick with Leo even with his >> step learning curve. >> >> [3] http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php >> >>> 3. Terry's bookmark plugin, and the eternal problems with sentinels, >>> leads me to think of ways of doing more with @auto and less with >>> clones. >>> >>> Project files >>> ========= >>> >>> I have been reluctant to work on a new file format because a re- >>> visioning of what a .leo file is might be in order. Following >>> SmallTalk, and other IDEs, it might be fruitful to think of a .leo >>> file as a more traditional project file. To make this work, however, >>> we must avoid bzr conflicts in such files, or make the .leo file an >>> almost-never-changing file. Perhaps "plain" helper files, associated >>> with the .leo file, could be part of the picture. >>> >> >> [...] >> >>> Clones >>> ====== >>> >> >> For me clones is what keep me on Leo and the potential of automatize >> through scripts even if I don't use this. The abstraction of a VCS could >> make Leo files travel with bazaar or git or fossil files so we could >> have this outliner with his helper files in a companion VCS self >> contained repository. If I could thing for a single feature in the new >> file format of Leo, this would be one that let people work >> collaboratively on Leo. I have tried this before sharing Leo files in a >> VCS, but it didn't work (reasons include that information about the view >> of a file were stored in that file), but would be nice if a workflow >> that let people use Leo to construct a shared understanding of a project >> between Leo users sharing their trees in a collaborative fashion will be >> the result of a format change. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Offray >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "leo-editor" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en. >> >> >
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