Hi, I will keep you posted on my Leo/Fossil integration work. And for collaborative Leo is more related with xml for collaborative environments. I would like something really flat as yaml:
http://www.yaml.org/start.html but may be this idea of serializing Leo trees as Yaml trees is just unfeasible because of the simplicity of Yaml compared to Leo DOM. Cheers, Offray ps: by the way it was Leo world and Smalltalk world what I was talking about, no Leo word and Smalltalk word! El 07/07/11 14:30, Seth Johnson escribió: > and bzr, of course. All those things. > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Seth Johnson <[email protected]> > wrote: >> You know, I bet somebody could go into the git and cvs code and >> probably pretty easily offer patches to those projects that would, >> when a suitable option was set somehow, hide Leo sentinels. Is that >> the only problem? Are we just trying to create a sentinel-less Leo >> option just for that reason? Why not just fix git and cvs and the >> rest? That seems the least effort path to making all of Leo-dom happy >> and the broader world too. >> >> Just find somebody who knows those code bases well enough, or is >> willing to read them. The patch would probably be really easy. >> >> Seth >> >> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> El 07/07/11 10:54, Edward K. Ream escribió: >>>> As the history of Leo page shows, I have declared Leo to be "complete" >>>> once or twice before, only to have fundamentally significant >>>> improvements show up. >>>> >>>> At present, Leo does more than I ever dreamed possible, and Terry >>>> continues to improve and generalize Leo's user interface. This state >>>> of affairs, somewhat ironically, seems to have the effect of inviting >>>> me to imaging even more fundamental improvements to Leo. >>>> >>>> Several ideas have been swirling around in the old bean lately: >>>> >>>> 1. I have recently been reminded of how cool the SmallTalk >>>> environment is. >>>> >>> >>> This is kind of strange synchrony (again) with my inquiries and the Leo >>> word. I have been away of this list for a while when I was in my >>> immersion in the Smalltalk/Pharo[1] world when I found [2]Moose software >>> analysis tool and it kind of remind me Leo. My plan now is to use >>> Pharo/Moose and Python/Leo pair to pair to see some cross-pollination >>> between the ideas of both. >>> >>> [1] http://www.pharo-project.org/ >>> [2] http://www.moosetechnology.org/ >>> >>> For me Smalltalk word has tried to build a comprehensive discourse about >>> informatics, one that, in words of Alan Kay, is trying to go from >>> "cooper to the user", from virtual machines, to user interfaces. In this >>> intend they develop a self described deeply interactive system in a >>> uniform objectual discourse. Now with tools like Moose, they're using >>> this environment to bring light about other software constructs of >>> informatics. For me Leo is an alternative approach for the same problem. >>> I'm not a programmer, but the use of outlines and clones to organize my >>> information is this kind of proto-discourse about my interaction with >>> the computer in tree form. Now I plan to "live inside Leo" for most of >>> my projects to see how much of this discourse can be build and how Leo >>> can help me to bootstrap understanding in dealing with complexity of >>> heterogeneous computer systems. Sorry if, for the moment, this sound >>> kind of abstract, but this is the kind of thinking that Leo/Smalltalk >>> provokes and invites in me, and I will give more concrete details about >>> the projects after. >>> >>>> 2. Thinking about lint and program analysis leads me to think of Leo >>>> as a platform for new kinds of programming tools. >>> >>> I'm agree. Caliopy is an example of this kind of new programming tools, >>> an also I think that the 5.0 with the attempt to bring more users needs >>> to "think outside the box" of programmers and think in a more general >>> user (something like caliopy for structural engineers but thinking in a >>> wider audience). Long before I talked about Scrivender[3] as a proposed >>> interface and the work of Terry stretching the interface possibilities >>> of Leo and Ville's and Kent's work on using and abstracting VCS, as the >>> talks about a one-click install and execution are putting the parts >>> together for this 5.0 release and the intend for a wider audience. For >>> me is quite interesting how non-programmers stick with Leo even with his >>> step learning curve. >>> >>> [3] http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php >>> >>>> 3. Terry's bookmark plugin, and the eternal problems with sentinels, >>>> leads me to think of ways of doing more with @auto and less with >>>> clones. >>>> >>>> Project files >>>> ========= >>>> >>>> I have been reluctant to work on a new file format because a re- >>>> visioning of what a .leo file is might be in order. Following >>>> SmallTalk, and other IDEs, it might be fruitful to think of a .leo >>>> file as a more traditional project file. To make this work, however, >>>> we must avoid bzr conflicts in such files, or make the .leo file an >>>> almost-never-changing file. Perhaps "plain" helper files, associated >>>> with the .leo file, could be part of the picture. >>>> >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>> Clones >>>> ====== >>>> >>> >>> For me clones is what keep me on Leo and the potential of automatize >>> through scripts even if I don't use this. The abstraction of a VCS could >>> make Leo files travel with bazaar or git or fossil files so we could >>> have this outliner with his helper files in a companion VCS self >>> contained repository. If I could thing for a single feature in the new >>> file format of Leo, this would be one that let people work >>> collaboratively on Leo. I have tried this before sharing Leo files in a >>> VCS, but it didn't work (reasons include that information about the view >>> of a file were stored in that file), but would be nice if a workflow >>> that let people use Leo to construct a shared understanding of a project >>> between Leo users sharing their trees in a collaborative fashion will be >>> the result of a format change. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Offray >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "leo-editor" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en. >>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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