I really shouldn't talk that way, like it's clearly going to be easy. But it seems the right thing to look at to me.
Seth On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Seth Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > You know, I bet somebody could go into the git and cvs code and > probably pretty easily offer patches to those projects that would, > when a suitable option was set somehow, hide Leo sentinels. Is that > the only problem? Are we just trying to create a sentinel-less Leo > option just for that reason? Why not just fix git and cvs and the > rest? That seems the least effort path to making all of Leo-dom happy > and the broader world too. > > Just find somebody who knows those code bases well enough, or is > willing to read them. The patch would probably be really easy. > > Seth > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> El 07/07/11 10:54, Edward K. Ream escribió: >>> As the history of Leo page shows, I have declared Leo to be "complete" >>> once or twice before, only to have fundamentally significant >>> improvements show up. >>> >>> At present, Leo does more than I ever dreamed possible, and Terry >>> continues to improve and generalize Leo's user interface. This state >>> of affairs, somewhat ironically, seems to have the effect of inviting >>> me to imaging even more fundamental improvements to Leo. >>> >>> Several ideas have been swirling around in the old bean lately: >>> >>> 1. I have recently been reminded of how cool the SmallTalk >>> environment is. >>> >> >> This is kind of strange synchrony (again) with my inquiries and the Leo >> word. I have been away of this list for a while when I was in my >> immersion in the Smalltalk/Pharo[1] world when I found [2]Moose software >> analysis tool and it kind of remind me Leo. My plan now is to use >> Pharo/Moose and Python/Leo pair to pair to see some cross-pollination >> between the ideas of both. >> >> [1] http://www.pharo-project.org/ >> [2] http://www.moosetechnology.org/ >> >> For me Smalltalk word has tried to build a comprehensive discourse about >> informatics, one that, in words of Alan Kay, is trying to go from >> "cooper to the user", from virtual machines, to user interfaces. In this >> intend they develop a self described deeply interactive system in a >> uniform objectual discourse. Now with tools like Moose, they're using >> this environment to bring light about other software constructs of >> informatics. For me Leo is an alternative approach for the same problem. >> I'm not a programmer, but the use of outlines and clones to organize my >> information is this kind of proto-discourse about my interaction with >> the computer in tree form. Now I plan to "live inside Leo" for most of >> my projects to see how much of this discourse can be build and how Leo >> can help me to bootstrap understanding in dealing with complexity of >> heterogeneous computer systems. Sorry if, for the moment, this sound >> kind of abstract, but this is the kind of thinking that Leo/Smalltalk >> provokes and invites in me, and I will give more concrete details about >> the projects after. >> >>> 2. Thinking about lint and program analysis leads me to think of Leo >>> as a platform for new kinds of programming tools. >> >> I'm agree. Caliopy is an example of this kind of new programming tools, >> an also I think that the 5.0 with the attempt to bring more users needs >> to "think outside the box" of programmers and think in a more general >> user (something like caliopy for structural engineers but thinking in a >> wider audience). Long before I talked about Scrivender[3] as a proposed >> interface and the work of Terry stretching the interface possibilities >> of Leo and Ville's and Kent's work on using and abstracting VCS, as the >> talks about a one-click install and execution are putting the parts >> together for this 5.0 release and the intend for a wider audience. For >> me is quite interesting how non-programmers stick with Leo even with his >> step learning curve. >> >> [3] http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php >> >>> 3. Terry's bookmark plugin, and the eternal problems with sentinels, >>> leads me to think of ways of doing more with @auto and less with >>> clones. >>> >>> Project files >>> ========= >>> >>> I have been reluctant to work on a new file format because a re- >>> visioning of what a .leo file is might be in order. Following >>> SmallTalk, and other IDEs, it might be fruitful to think of a .leo >>> file as a more traditional project file. To make this work, however, >>> we must avoid bzr conflicts in such files, or make the .leo file an >>> almost-never-changing file. Perhaps "plain" helper files, associated >>> with the .leo file, could be part of the picture. >>> >> >> [...] >> >>> Clones >>> ====== >>> >> >> For me clones is what keep me on Leo and the potential of automatize >> through scripts even if I don't use this. The abstraction of a VCS could >> make Leo files travel with bazaar or git or fossil files so we could >> have this outliner with his helper files in a companion VCS self >> contained repository. If I could thing for a single feature in the new >> file format of Leo, this would be one that let people work >> collaboratively on Leo. I have tried this before sharing Leo files in a >> VCS, but it didn't work (reasons include that information about the view >> of a file were stored in that file), but would be nice if a workflow >> that let people use Leo to construct a shared understanding of a project >> between Leo users sharing their trees in a collaborative fashion will be >> the result of a format change. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Offray >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "leo-editor" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en. >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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