Anna, you are right about govt manipulation of money! As to your other point: a benefit of a credible LIBERTARIAN 'physical aggression truce' is the freeing of the spirit of each person from a degree of the anxiety generated by fear of a physical vector for assault. The truce is in the material realm, but has profound ramifications to the human spirit.
When fear is reduced people naturally do more love :) PleaseSee: 'Real world' experiment in LIBERTARIAN community became famous at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/message/2569 -Terry Liberty Parker --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This would be only correct if money was backed by the real goods. > Otherwise money is as good as the paper it is written one. > This is actually the situation that USA is now in. > > What about other values? A good model must also acknowledge spiritual needs. > Where does an artist fit in your society? > Anna > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:20 PM > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... > > > Anna asks, "are human most important values only money?". In a > word.... YES. But don't take my word for it. Here's a excerpt from > Atlas Shrugged that is pretty apt for this question.... > > ==================== > "So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco > d'Anconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a > tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced > and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the > principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by > trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, > who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from > you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is > this what you consider evil? > > "When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on > the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort > of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to > money. Not an ocean of tears not all the guns in the world can > transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will > need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have > been gold, are a token of honor-your claim upon the energy of the men > who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in > the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral > principle which is the root of money, Is this what you consider evil? > > "Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an > electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the > muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat > without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for > the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but > physical motions-and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all > the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth. > > "But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the > weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or > muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is > money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who > did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of > the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the > ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made-before it can be > looted or mooched-made by the effort of every honest man, each to the > extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can't > consume more than he has produced.' > > "To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will. Money > rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his > effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your effort > except the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to trade you his > effort in return. Money permits you to obtain for your goods and your > labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. > Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced > judgment of the traders. Money demands of you the recognition that men > must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their > gain, not their loss-the recognition that they are not beasts of > burden, born to carry the weight of your misery-that you must offer > them values, not wounds-that the common bond among men is not the > exchange of suffering, but the exchange of goods. Money demands that > you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to > their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, > but the best that your money can find. And when men live by trade- with > reason, not force, as their final arbiter-it is the best product that > wins, the best performance, the man of best judgment and highest > ability-and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his > reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. > Is this what you consider evil? > > "But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it > will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the > satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with > desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the > law of causality-the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the > products of the mind. > > "Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of > what he wants: money will not give him a code of values, if he's > evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him > with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will > not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or > respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the > brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his > judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of > intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking > to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be > smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil? > > "Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth-the man > who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir > is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you > look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he > corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not > yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it > should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty > parasites instead of one, would not bring back the dead virtue which > was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. > Money will not serve the mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason > why you call it evil? > > "Money is your means of survival. The verdict you pronounce upon the > source of your livelihood is the verdict you pronounce upon your life. > If the source is corrupt, you have damned your own existence. Did you > get your money by fraud? By pandering to men's vices or men's > stupidity? By catering to fools, in the hope of getting more than your > ability deserves? By lowering your standards? By doing work you > despise for purchasers you scorn? If so, then your money will not give > you a moment's or a penny's worth of joy. Then all the things you buy > will become, not a tribute to you, but a reproach; not an achievement, > but a reminder of shame. Then you'll scream that money is evil. Evil, > because it would not pinch-hit for your self-respect? Evil, because it > would not let you enjoy your depravity? Is this the root of your > hatred of money? > > "Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the > cause. Money is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue > and it will not redeem your vices. Money will not give you the > unearned, neither in matter nor in spirit. Is this the root of your > hatred of money? > > "Or did you say it's the love of money that's the root of all evil? To > love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know > and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within > you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best > among men. It's the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who > is loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money-and he has good reason > to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know > they are able to deserve it. > > "Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who > damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has > earned it. > > "Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That > sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men > live together on earth and need means to deal with one another- their > only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun. > > "But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it > or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride or self-esteem, men who > have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing > to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being > rich-will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the > swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come > crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for > the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the > guilt-and of his life, as he deserves. > > "Then you will see the rise of the men of the double standard-the men > who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the > value of their looted money-the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. > In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are > written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes > criminals-by-right and looters-by-law-men who use force to seize the > wealth of disarmed victims-then money becomes its creators' avenger. > Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've > passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for > other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race > goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at > brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the > pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and > slaughter. > > "Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is > the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is > done, not by consent, but by compulsion-when you see that in order to > produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce > nothing-when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in > goods, but in favors-when you see that men get richer by graft and by > pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but > protect them against you-when you see corruption being rewarded and > honesty becoming a self-sacrifice-you may know that your society is > doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns > and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a > country to survive as half-property, half-loot. > > "Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, > for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. > Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of > paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the > arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an > objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage > on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are > expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon > an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch > for the day when it bounces, marked, 'Account overdrawn.' > > "When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to > remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for > the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them > to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not > ask, 'Who is destroying the world? You are. > > "You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest > productive civilization and you wonder why it's crumbling around you, > while you're damning its life-blood-money. You look upon money as the > savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back > to the edge of your cities. Throughout men's history, money was always > seized by looters of one brand or another, whose names changed, but > whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force and to keep > the producers bound, demeaned, defamed, deprived of honor. That phrase > about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous > recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor > of slaves-slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by > somebody's mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as > production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, > there was little to conquer, Yet through all the centuries of > stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of > the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and > despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers-as > industrialists. > > "To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in > history, a country of money-and I have no higher, more reverent > tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, > justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's > mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by- conquest, > but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there > appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest > type of human being-the self-made man-the American industrialist. > > "If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would > choose-because it contains all the others-the fact that they were the > people who created the phrase 'to make money.' No other language or > nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of > wealth as a static quantity-to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, > looted of obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand > that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the > essence of human morality. > > "Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the > rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has > brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of > shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the > industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the > product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven > slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he > sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of > the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide- as, I think, > he will. > > "Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you > ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by > which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. > Blood, whips and guns-or dollars. Take your choice-there is no > other-and your time is running out." > > ===================================== > > --- In [email protected], "Anna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Fast Foods? > > Your question is childish. Everything should be allowed if a person > tells people the consequences. Eating exclusively fast foods can > cause a heart attack and a colon cancer. Yet, why should I forbid you > or anyone else to die of cancer if you are informed of the danger yet > persist in having your macs 3 times a day in lieu of other meals? > > But surely, a toxic fertilizer which can kill the workers and > makes the produce toxic, should be banned. > > Fast foods may or may not be toxic if a person eats them > occasionally and supplements with other wholesome foods. But cyanide > is always poisonous. So, the answer is really simple. > > > > > > I have no name for my system. I only know that all old systems have > been always feeding abuse and exploitation. It is good socialism > which leads to communism, while capitalism to fascism. Knowing > this, any system that one wishes to propose, must take into > consideration human psychology and mentality, or it will fail along > all other systems. > > Ask yourself this question: are human most important values only money? > > Anna > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > SPONSORED LINKS E government Libertarian E government strategy > Libertarian party E government procurement > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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