"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." -Thomas Jefferson
For decades our government has been taking money from all of us in the form of "taxes" and using some of it to fund "public education" which doesn't teach the American People the American economic system of Free Enterprise. They've been keeping millions poor by increasing ignorance of a system that works if you know how to work it. As a result we have "unemployment" issues, "five o'clock traffic", massive welfare and a lot of people in jail, prison and on probation, not because they were guilty, but because they couldn't afford respectable legal representation. TJ would not be pleased. Also Christian parents have had their tax money funding "public schools" where their faith was undermined by the State in the minds of their children. Regardless of what you believe regarding religion, you have to acknowledge that this is immoral. --- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Geof seems to want to re-write history to his own > liking, and won't > let something like taking quotes out of context stop > him. > > http://www.atheists.org/courthouse/charlotte.html > > "Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of > the common law." > -Thomas Jefferson > > "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money > for the propagation > of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is > sinful and tyrannical." > -Thomas Jefferson > > "Our civil rights have no dependence upon our > religious opinions more > than our opinions in physics or geometry." > -Thomas Jefferson > > "All national institutions of churches, whether > Jewish, Christian or > Turkish, appear to me no other than human > inventions, set up to > terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power > and profit." > -Thomas Paine > > "The Christian system of religion is an outrage on > common sense." > -Thomas Paine > > "It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, > rapine and murder; > for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man." > -Thomas Paine > > "I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early > in life I absented > myself from Christian assemblies." > -Benjamin Franklin > > "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of > reason: The Morning > Daylight appears plainer when you put out your > Candle." > -Benjamin Franklin > > "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." > -Benjamin Franklin > > "Every new & successful example of a perfect > separation between > ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance." > -James Madison > > "Religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, > the less they are > mixed together." > -James Madison > > "The civil government ... functions with complete > success ... by the > total separation of the Church from the State." > -James Madison > > "If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, > Africa, or Europe. > They may be Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any > Sect, or they may be > Atheists." > -George Washington > > "We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this > Land the light of > truth and reason has triumphed over the power of > bigotry and superstition" > -George Washington > > "Among many other weighty objections to the Measure, > it has been > suggested, that it has a tendency to introduce > religious disputes into > the Army, which above all things should be avoided, > and in many > instances would compel men to a mode of Worship > which they do not > profess." > -George Washington > > > > --- In [email protected], Geof Gibson > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Below are just some quotes from our Founding > Fathers. There are many > > other quotes, some of which even question the > existence of God. > > My point is it is disingenuous to just state that > they didn't believe > > in a monotheistic God. > > It is also disingenuous to state that no morality > comes from the > > Christian religion, especially when you quote > Christ about separating > > government and religion. > > > > Most of the critiques of religion by the founders > are specific to > > churches and organized religion when it was used > as a form of > > government and to control the people. Just > because men, whom are all > > flawed, usurp religion and churches for their own > end, does not condemn > > religion and spirituality. > > > > "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often > that this great > > nation was founded not by religionists but by > Christians, not on > > religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We > shall not fight alone. > > God presides over the destinies of nations." - > Patrick Henry > > > > "I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... > That the most > > acceptable service we can render Him is doing good > to His other > > children.... As to Jesus ... I have ... some > doubts as to his divinity; > > though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, > having never studied > > it, and think it needless to busy myself with it > now, when I expect > > soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less > trouble." - Benjamin > > Franklin > > > > On Jan 1, 2006, at 2:00 PM, Paul wrote: > > > > > It seems as though in addition to needing an > education on the word > > > "defense", you also are woefully misinformed > about the > founders. They > > > were indeed "secularists" and they were mainly > non-Christians. They > > > didn't believe in the judeo-christian > monotheistic concept of "god" > > > but rather they believed in a generic higher > power called "nature's > > > god" or "creator". Neither of these is a > belief in the Christian > > > "God". They used these generic terms on > purpose as to include > anyone > > > you believe your "creator" to be whether it be > nature, Vishnu, > Buddha, > > > God, or your parents and they wanted to let > people know that our > > > rights are with us at birth (not before), and > that they don't come > > > from the government. > > > > > > The founders, (much like Jesus of Nazareth) > wanted to keep government > > > completely out of religion and all religion > completely out of > > > government. > > > > > > Morality doesn't come from religion, especially > the Christian > > > religion. Without any religion or any belief > in god, we'd still > have > > > morality, because we'd still have natural > law...which is what our > > > government and laws are based on. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], > "geofgibson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Your interpretation of the First Amendment > must be twisted by your > > > atheism. > > > > > > > > The only violation of the 1st Amendment would > be if someone was > > > forced to > > > > pray. Any voluntary prayer is totally > within the free exercise of > > > religion. > === message truncated === __________________________________ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! 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