William, I did NOT call 'you' any names; I identified your obvious distortions and misrepresentations of what I had said as 'stupid'
In THIS forum one may NOT attack the messenger, but the message is fair game; so long as the attack is honest, genuine and can be reasonably well supported with credible, verifiable info. You had attributed to me a position that I have never expressed or that it could be reasonalbe to even conclude it had been implied by me. Your humor (satire is certainly ok here) was based on gross misrepresentation of the position *I* stated. That's what made IT a 'stupid' thing to say; and to which I responded in like kind (distortion via outrageous exageration) to show you how that feels :) While I never said that you actually did represent yourself a policy expert, you did make some reference to being very familiar with a lot of the conflicts and I thank you for taking time and trouble to post the below summaries; which I will run thru my half blind eyes, contemplate then 'opinionate' about in a later post. -Terry Liberty Parker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Terry, a most amusing reply. To be frank, I understood this to be a > forum of respectful exchange. I certainly do not appreciate name > calling in return for satire. If, in the event, my sarcastic remarks > did offend you and appeared to be condescending, then I certainly do > apologize, as the comments were meant to be recieved more as humorous > than offensive. To be honest, I respect your opinion, yet my point is > perhaps the exact opposite of yours, which appears only to be > condemnatory towards the US. Certainly US foreign policy merits > OBJECTIVE criticism. Yet, to make such outlandish and overtly broad > statements suggesting that all "EXISTING authoritarianism is INFLAMED > by USA govt policies!", is, in my opinion, baseless. Furthermore, I > have never proclaimed, as you claim in your reply, that "ALL > done by its [the US] govt is ALWAYS 'the RIGHT and BEST thing.' If > you had read from my earlier post with the same criticism you gave to > the prior one, then you would have noted that I said that the US > HAS "been guilty of blantant abuses" with concern to its foreign > policy. Having studied the 'Dirty War' in Argentina and become > personnal friends with a number of desaparecidos, I can assure you > that Argentina during the 1970s and 1980s is just one such case and > would be happy to send you documentary evidence to support such a > statement. > > On the other hand, please inform me of one positive comment you have > made in regards to the United States in our conversations? And don't > continue to infer that just because I don't hate the US and bash it > at every available opportunity that I don't have issues with US > foreign policy. Whether you like it or not, we are at war with > radical Islam. Isolationism and "peace at all costs" simply isn't an > option, although I certainly woul prefer that it was. > > You said: > "If you're the savy analyst that you seem to present yourself as, > > you should be able to identify and disclose, just what are the > > various and sundry factors (BOTH those unigue to each and those > > in common with all) to which the 'majorness' of each world class > > confilct can be attributed." > > Again, you apparently weren't listening. I have never presented > myself as some "savy analyst," as you suggest, while such comments by > you gives the impression of immaturity and condescention on your part > for anyone who disagrees with whatever apparently sanctimonious and > overtly arbitrary comments you make. And that my friend is not > satire. > > So, as requested, I will list each area of major conflict involving > muslims and a brief synopsis. And perhaps, since YOU ARE the only > one here with an opinion that matters, you can tell the whole group > what factors in each area can be attributed SOLELY to the US, as you > implied in an earlier post. PLease do hurry, as we are all awaiting > an enlightening lesson from the authority on American foreign > policy. And that my friend is condescension. > > Kind Sir, you have the floor. > > William > > > > > ALGERIA: Armed Islamic groups formed and since 1992 have carried out > attacks on key economic points, security forces, officials and > foreigners. In 1995 Algeria's first multiparty presidential elections > were held and the incumbent president Liamine Zeroual won 60% of the > votes in a poll with a 75% turnout. The first multiparty legislative > elections were held in June 1997 which were won by the National > Democratic Rally, which holds the majority of seats along with the > FLN. Although the armed wing of the FIS declared a ceasefire in > October 1997, an extremist splinter group, the Islamic Armed Group > (GIA), continued attacks. There is also evidence that many attacks > are carried out by militias backed by the Algerian security forces. > After years of civil strife, Amnesty International estimates that > around 80,000 people have died > > The Caucasus and Russia: The Central Asian republics have a long > history of conflicts. Fighting breaks out regularly between warlords > and religious groups calling for the establishment of Islamic states > outside the Russian Federation. Russia is trying to hold on to the > federation because the Caucasus is a vital supply route for the oil > riches of the Caspian and Black Sea. With the break-up of the Soviet > Union various groups fought for control in the republics. Conflicts > from one republic spills over to the other and they continually blame > each other for attacks. Chechnya, still part of Russia, was flung in > an almost full-scale war in 1994-96 and, after a disastrous campaign, > Russia was forced to re-evaluate its involvement in the area. In > August 1999 Russia stepped up security in the Caucasus region as > rebels from within Dagestan - a small republic where more than 100 > languages are spoken - went on the attack in support of Chechnyan > Muslim groups who claim independence from Russia. In September 1999 > Russia launched a ground invasion into the area to cut rebels off > from Central Asian supply routes. By January 2000 Russia was once > again involved in a full scale conflict in Chechnya. The Caucasus > issue is complicated by the more than 50 different ethnic groups each > insisting to proclaim their religious convictions on the area. The > situation holds serious danger for neighbouring countries, > Kazakhstan, Georgia and Russia itself. > > > > EYGPT: Fundamentalist Muslim rebels seek to topple the secular > Egyptian government. At least 1,200 people have perished since the > beginning of the rebellion. The conflict was primarily waged as an > urban guerrilla/terrorist war. The opposition Muslim Brotherhood > took part in elections in 2000, indicating that they felt armed force > would not work. > > > > INDONESIA: The struggle on the Indonesia islands is complicated by > leaders of pro- and anti-independence movements, and by religious > conflicts. More than 500 churches have been burned down or damaged by > Muslims over the past six years. Both the Christians and Muslims > blame each other for the violence and attempts at reconciliation made > little progress. After a bloody struggle East Timor gained > independence in 1999. The hostilities on other islands continue to > claim dozens of lives, to such an extent that the break-up of > Indonesia seem imminent. > > > > INDIA/PAKISTAN: Muslim separatists in the Indian section declared a > holy war against the mostly-Hindu India and started attacks in 1989, > mainly from Pakistan-occupied section of Kashmir, and from Pakistan > and Afghanistan. The conflict continues, with Pakistan also crushing > rebellions with brute force in their section. > > > > IRAQ: Supports Islamic terrorist acts around the world. Differing > culture and religious groups within Iraq continues to clash with > Shiite Muslims. > > > > ISRAEL: Within its own borders, Israel continues to battle various > Muslim organizations that seek independence for a Palestine state, > areas made up of the Gaza strip, West.Bank, and part of Jerusalem. > There is heavy international pressure on Israel to recognise a > Palestinian state. The area of what today is Palestine was settled by > Semitic tribes at a very early date. It was then called Canaan, and > controlled by Canaanite tribes for more than 1,000 years. In about > 1500 BC Hebrew, or Jewish, tribes began to enter the area. They later > came into conflict with a people of Greek origin known as the > Philistines. It is from them that the term Palestine is derived. > > > > IRAN: After the Iranian Revolution in 1979 toppled the government of > the Shah, the Mujahadeen Khalq soon began a bloody guerrilla war > against the new Islamic government. The Mujahadeen are currently > based in Iraq and conduct cross-border raids into Iran, as well as > conducting urban guerrilla operations in the cities and conducting > political assassinations. Iran occasionally launches raids against > Khalq bases in Iraq. > > > > KOSOVO: The ethnic Albanian KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) in this > Serbian province fought a guerilla war against Serbia to claim the > region. Beginning in February 1999, Albanians were forced out of the > province, prompting NATO to attack Serbia. By July 1999 Serb troops > were forced out of Kosovo, only to open an avenue for Albanian > Kosovars to attack Serb Kosovars. The Albanian Muslims have since > burned down dozens of centuries-old Christian churches. In an effort > to establish a Greater Albania, Albanian Muslim rebels also launched > attacks in Macedonia. > > > > NIGERIA: There are violent religious clashes in the city of Kaduna in > northern Nigeria beginning February 21 2004 and have continued. > Kaduna is the second largest city in the north. The clashes followed > a march by tens of thousands of Christians to protest the proposal to > introduce Muslim sharia law as the criminal code throughout Kaduna > state. Reports speak of rival armed gangs of Christians and Muslims > roving the streets. Churches and mosques have been put to the torch. > Corpses were seen lying in the streets and people's bodies hanging > out of cars and buses, apparently killed while attempting to flee the > violence. Local human rights workers said that more than 400 had been > killed as a result of the clashes. > > > > SUDAN: The largest country in Africa, has been plagued by a > succession of unstable civilian and military governments since it > gained independence in 1956 from an Anglo-Egyptian condominium. The > long-running conflict continues between the Arab Muslim northerners > of Sudan, (the base of the government), and the African Christians of > the south. In the mid-90s Sudan was home to Osama bin Ladin, the > international terrorist responsible for the World Trade Center > attack. It is estimated that more than 1,2 million people have been > killed in the Sudan war, brining devastation to the Sudanese economy. > > PHILIPPINES: The Phillipines armed forces, with assistance of US > troops, are fighting Moslem rebels - they have been linked to Osama > bin Laden's el Qaeda terrorist group - on the southern islands of the > country. Muslim rebel groups seek autonomy/independence from the > mostly Christian Philippines. One rebel group, the Abu Sayaf Group, > is believed linked to Osama bin-Laden's Al-Qaida. This connection, > plus their tactic of kidnapping and beheading Americans, led the > United States to send Special Forces to aid the Philippine Army. > > > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" <txliberty@> > wrote: > > > > Buckygil, how does one who appears as smart as you manage > > to say things that are so stupid? > > > > IDEALISTIC America is a great inspiration in the world! > > > > But, that's not well served by jingoism, a pretense that ALL > > done by its govt is ALWAYS 'the RIGHT and BEST thing' I don't > > feel capable of judging USA govt interventions as 'the > > greatest source of evil in the world' but, it's obvious that > > our power has been destructivly abused. Would not you agree > > that while perfection's not an option, improvement certainly > > can be. > > > > You note that there are some radical muslims involved in all > > 13 major conflicts in the world. Are 'ALL' these conflicts > > made 'major' due to ONLY radicals using a muslim pretext? What > > else is present to 'inflame' or 'empower' the violent > > authoritarians? > > > > If you're the savy analyst that you seem to present yourself as, > > you should be able to identify and disclose, just what are the > > various and sundry factors (BOTH those unigue to each and those > > in common with all) to which the 'majorness' of each world class > > confilct can be attributed. > > > > Are you willing to so do, here in this forum? > > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <buckygilbert@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Your right Terry. Everything we do is wrong. The US government > is > > > the greatest source of evil in the world. Every major conflict > in > > > the world boils down to American imperialsim. Although all 13 > > major > > > conflicts in the world involve radical muslims, it is undoubtedly > > the > > > fault of the US for either causing the conflict or not stepping > in > > > the stop it. Long live the terrorists. May they defeat the evil > > > empire and hopefully we can all live in an Islamic country and > work > > > as slaves to pay back our debt to the world for all we have done. > > > PREACH ON BROTHER, PREACH ON!!!!!! > > > > > > By the way, i did reply to your post and wonder what you think. > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" <txliberty@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > EXISTING authoritarianism is INFLAMED by USA govt policies! > > > > > > > > for example.... > > > > > > > > > > > > US Rep Ron Paul (R) Speech in Congress Sept 25, 2001 > > > > > > > > In which he described how USA policies help authoritarian > > > > Islamic extremists in their recruitment for the 'holy war' > > > > > > > > "There is no doubt that our policies that are seen by the > > radicals > > > as > > > > favoring one faction over another in the long lasting Middle > East > > > > conflict add to the distrust and hatred of America. > > > > > > > > The hatred has been suppressed because we are a powerful > economic > > > and > > > > military force and wield a lot of influence. But this suppressed > > > > hatred is now becoming more visible and we as Americans for the > > most > > > > part are not even aware of how this could be. Americans have no > > > > animosity toward a people they hardly even know. Instead, our > > > > policies have been driven by the commercial interests of a few. > > > > > > > > And now the innocent suffer" > > > > > > > > MuchMoreAt > > > http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr092501.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AND some history to better understand the middle east context... > > > > > > > > > > > > HistoryChannel: a. Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > > > part 1 of 2 is two hours of four > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades1.wmv > > > > > > > > HistoryChannel: b. Crusades in the 'Holy Land' > > > > part 2 of 2 is two hours of four > > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/Crusades2.wmv > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence of Arabia Documentary (Download ONLY) > > > > PBS 2hr special providing much insight to today's middle east > > > turmoil > > > > WindowsMedia download/playback > > > > http://txliberty.dyndns.org/inetpub/wwwroot/webfiles/ > > > > LawrenceArabia.wmv > > > > (re-assemble above for functional URL) > > > > > > > > > > > > AND... > > > > > > > > feel free to add your own RELIABLE education sources. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignorance may be 'bliss' but it's NOT an 'excuse' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > > > AND Find More Free On-demand Playbacks On-line via > > > > AustinLibertyInterNet Radio/TV > > > > at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertyProspects/links > > > > VoiceCall 1.512.462.1776 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Geof Gibson" <geofgibson@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > But you cling to the utterly false belief that Muslims on > the > > > > other > > > > > > side of the world who want nothing other than to stop being > > > > murdered > > > > > > and screwed with by the United States are more of a danger > to > > > > > > Americans, than the drug war right here in America which > has > > > cost > > > > more > > > > > > lives each year than all Muslim terrorist acts ever > committed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have never refuted, as far as I have read, that the > > > > Islamofascists > > > > > state they want to establish a worldwide caliphate and rule > by > > > > sharia. > > > > > Do you have some psychic ability to determine they don't mean > > what > > > > > they say? > > > > > What about India? There have been more Hindus killed by > > > > authoritarians using Islam as their pretext than there have > been > > > > other denominations and nationalities. You canstantly repeat > > that > > > > Muslim extremism is all the fault of the US, but Islamofascists > > > hate > > > > and kill everyone of all faiths wherever they have determined > the > > > > infidel must die. How is this the fault of the US? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
