1. I've travelled more than virtually anyone I know, and the lines of our borders are real. You can see them on a map. But even if you couldn't see them, this doesnt mean they don't exist. This isn't debatable. Borders are a good thing and a libertarian thing. They were paid for by the blood of those in the Revolutionary war and left to all Americans as a legacy.
2. The "we" I'm referring to includes you, and me, and every single person who was ever born in America or became a naturalized citizen of America. You are included in it regardless of whether you chose to be or not, and if you want to be excluded from it, all you have to do is leave the country and give up your citizenship. You were signed up at birth by your parents who voluntarily chose to have you born within the borders of this country. But if you choose to go to another country, you'll be subject to their laws too. 3. No, I've never played the role of Humpty Dumpty. This isn't MY definition, it's EVERY definition of the word "markets" ever used by any economist that ever lived in the entire recorded history of the planet earth. When someone refers to "American markets" do you think they are referring to trade in China? When someone refers to the "Hong Kong index" do you think they are discussing trade in Guatamala? Enough of your word games, and trying to twist the truth to suit your own warped world view. 4. It doesn't matter if you were alive. You're still included in the contract and so is anyone born within the borders of America or who becomes a naturalized citizen. Anyone who lives within the borders of America is subject to the laws of America and that includes the highest law of the land, the U.S. Constitution. 5. You do not have a right to sell foreign goods within the United States. This is not an infringement of your ownership of property. Nobody forced you to buy foreign goods. If you CHOOSE to import goods into the borders of America, you must pay for the PRIVILEGE (not a right) to do so. If you smuggle goods into America without paying for the privilege, you are trespassing and stealing from the American people and YOU are using aggression therefore any aggression used against you is DEFENSIVE. --- In [email protected], "Thomas L. Knapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Quoth Paul Ireland: > > > 1. The lines aren't "imaginary". They are real and tangible and paid > > for with blood. > > Hmmm ... I've traveled over a number of them and have never seen them. > Furthermore, if someone paid for them, in blood or any other currency, > then it follows that they belong to the people who did the paying > and/or those people's heirs or assignees, not to the state. > > > 2. We the People gave the state control over those lines. > > I don't know who this "we" you're talking about consists of. As for > myself, I was never asked to give the state control over those lines, > or over anything else, and quite likely would have declined if I _had_ > been asked, and have never assigned my power of attorney to anyone who > might have complied with such a request on my behalf. > > > 3. Markets have always referred to the buying and selling of goods in > > a particular area. This is true of any definition. > > I guess we're back to Paul Ireland as Humpty Dumpty: "When I use a > word, it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor > less." Unfortunately for your argument, economists and political > theorists have been using the word "market" to refer to an > overarching, non-geographically, specific mechanism for many years, > and it's unlikely that the rest of the world is going to flush > everyone from Marx to Menger to Mises down the toilet just because you > demand that they do so in order to make your arguments work. > > > 4. The government was given control of the borders and protection of > > the markets when the government was created by "We the people" and as > > long as we have a government (as long as there are people), it will > > retain control of such. > > > > 5. See the U.S. Constitution. > > I wasn't alive, or in Philadelphia, in the 1780s when the government > and the Constitution were created by a convention and ratified by some > politicians. Nor have I received from my ancestors any compelling > instructions which would in any way make me responsible for, or > responsible to, or bound by, that convention, those politicians, or > their quackings to each other. > > All of the above aside, the fact that something is "constitutional" is > irrelevant to whether or not it amounts to an initiation of force. You > claimed you had proven/would prove the latter, not just do a piss-poor > job of trying to prove the former. Care to take another stab at it? > > Tom Knapp > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
