Thomas, there's NEVER a need in this forum to 'be gentle' with ANYone's assertions, actions, stances and so on :)
In item 3 (below) I intervened to delete content from Paul that had exceeded an attack on your assertions/stances and had broadened to generalized personal attack that went way off the topic being argued. Of course, YOU can handle such attempted personal abuse. It's the forum that needs protecting from all the chairs flying and bottles breaking over peoples heads general destruction of large mirrors and other fixtures. My intent is to keep the forum open as a conduit of expression that includes some of the more 'genteel' of the 700 registered to post in this forum of PUBLIC viewable message archives. So, sometimes I play like the 'bartender' who tells a few rowdies to 'take it (personal abuse) outside' (this forum) to maybe places like http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LibertarianFlame We now return to our usual idealogical foodfight :) -Terry Liberty Parker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TerryLiberty --- In [email protected], "Thomas L. Knapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Quoth Paul Ireland: > > > 2. The people I regard as economists include Robert J. Barro, Walter > > Block, James Buchanan, Donald J. Boudreaux, Richard M. Ebeling, David > > Friedman, Milton Friedman, Friedrich Hayek, Robert Higgs, Israel > > Kirzner, Ludwig von Mises, Murray N. Rothbard, Mark Skousen, Thomas > > Sowell, Vernon Smith, Mark Thornton, Richard Timberlake, and Walter > > Williams. All of them agree with the definition of a market taking > > place in a geographical area. > > Really? Here are two of the aforementioned folks on what a market is. > > Ludwig von Mises: > > "The market is not a place, a thing, or a collective entity. The > market is a process, actuated by the interplay of the actions of the > various individuals cooperating under the division of labor." -- Human > Action, chapter 15 ("The Market: Characteristics of the Market Economy") > > Murray N. Rothbard: > > "The network of voluntary interpersonal exchanges forms a society; it > also forms a pattern of interrelations known as the market." -- Man, > Economy and State, Chapter 2 ("Direct Exchange") > > > 3. [Moderator: I deleted Paul's response to Tom's attack on Paul's > > methodology because Paul's response was an escalation into > > generalized ad-hominem; which is off-topic in this forum > > -TLP ] > > Aw, c'mon, Terry. There's something bigger at stake here than whether > economists, in referring to "the market" are referring to the overall > whole of exchange or to Bob's Stop-n-Shop in particular. > > Both Mr. Ireland and myself frequently hold ourselves and our ideas > out as representative, to some larger or smaller degree, of > libertarianism. Each of us thinks that the other is not only > frequently wrong, but in wrong in ways that are potentially > embarrassing and/or damaging to the party and/or movement. > > Settling the argument over which of us does or does not represent > libertarianism properly cannot be done without at least approaching ad > hominem. For one thing, the accusations are implied by the reasoning, > even if they are not overtly stated. > > For example, if I note that Paul Ireland disagrees with Harry Browne > on tariffs, it is likely that in response to that notation, he will > respond that he knows everything there is to know about Harry Browne > and that I'm dead wrong, and that Harry Browne said whatever it was > convenient for Paul Ireland for him to have said, and nothing else. > > That, in turn, will likely move me to post a quotation from Harry > Browne showing that he did not approve of tariffs (although he > regarded them, more or less, as the least bad way to transition away > from coercive taxation), which in turn will likely move Ireland will > call me a name, insist that Harry Browne meant something entirely > different (i.e. whatever Ireland wanted him to have meant), call me > another name or two, huff, puff, proclaim his primacy of place in the > godhead of libertarian theory, and maybe stomp around a little or send > me off-list nastygrams until I get his ISP to threaten to cut him off > if he doesn't cease and desist. > > This process will reveal something. Granted, what it will reveal will > not be very flattering to Ireland, but I'd be happy to be subject to > the process even when it reveals things that aren't flattering to me. > So, pray let the thing work itself out. > > > If I say "In order for you to sell your goods in my mall, you must pay > > rent." I'm not forcing you to pay rent because I'm not forcing you to > > sell your goods in my mall. > > True -- IF it is your mall. Your argument that all market transactions > within the US constitute a property in which the US government > exercises legitimate ownership are -- and I shall be as gentle as > possible here -- not very persuasive. > > Regards, > Tom Knapp > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
