to strip from them. While it's true that rights are not given, and
that they are unalienable, they also come with BIRTH. We are BORN
with certain unalienable rights and don't have any rights even 1
second before.
--- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> I object to seperate the interelationship between the two synonyms
> as it allows the perpetuation of dehumization used by opressers for
> centuries to remove the rights of human beings by decreeing them
> something less than the whole that they are.
>
> I understand your construction of what a Person is in your view, but
> it is nothing more than a construction and very much abstract. It is
> an idea, and it is an idea that strips rights from inividuals both
> born and unborn.
>
> I would define a person as the singular form of people, and
> sepcificly as the whole of a human entity. To claim only a person
> has rights, and that a human is not always a person and that
> personhood is given to them by a definition created by anouther is
> to make a mokery of the idea of rights. Rights are not given, the
> are inate, ineliable you could say. Privledges are those things that
> are given. To claim an unborn child is human, but not a person and
> thus not granted said rights is to claim that life and libertey are
> not rights but rather privledges of the state and then Terry, then
> you will finaly see that philosophical failure you talk about.
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" <txliberty@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I object to employing the word 'human' to mean 'person' as the
> issue
> > is already rife with people talking past each other :(
> >
> > -Terry Liberty Parker
> > Please see what I wrote in this forum as
> > 'PERSONHOOD: Abortion & beyond'
> > at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/48100
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "terry12622000" <cottondrop@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > David I tend to agree with the prolife libertarians more than
> the
> > pro
> > > choice but I don't agree with either entirely. I don't think we
> > need
> > > special legislation for abortion, it is either murder or it is
> not
> > > both the mother and the doctor could be charged with murder. The
> > > mother can claim self defense, Personally I think any killing of
> a
> > > human should be presented to a Grand Jury, the Grand Jury would
> > > decided if there is enough evidence to take it to trial before
> the
> > > regular jury. I also think the decesion should be uniamous with
> to
> > > take a case to trial. The grand jury should have at least 23
> > members
> > > but could have more. If a prosecutor decided not to bring forth
> a
> > > case of a killing of a fetus or even a zygote because he thought
> it
> > > was not a human being the Grandjury could investagate the case
> > anyway
> > > to see if it had a human
> > > standing.
> > > I think disproving the great majority of mothers claim
> of
> > > self defense would be very hard and the grand juries would
> probably
> > > only send a few cases to trial, the regular jury would convict
> even
> > > fewer, they would give anything more than a light sentence to
> even
> > > fewer and even fewer mothers and doctors would lose on
> > > appeals.
> > > Since self defense in case of abortion is so hard to
> > disprove
> > > most mothers will claim self defense even if that was not the
> case.
> > > Taking a morning after pill or some other means to self abort a
> > > zygote would probably almost never go before a grand jury unless
> > > complications to the mothers health arose and the doctor
> cocluded
> > > that was the reason then reported
> > > it.
> > > If abortion is murder and I think in many cases it is then
> > mothers
> > > and abortionist and drug providers can easily get away with
> > > murder.
> > > It would be a very good idea to convince mothers that
> there
> > is
> > > better options and private groups, friends and family to lend
> > support
> > > for those better alternative some which are abistence from
> > > intercourse, better methods of birth control, adoption, co-
> > parenting
> > > with other mothers, couples, grandparents or other family
> members
> > > including allowing the mother to be compensated by an
> adoptation
> > > couple at market rates, encouraging and insisting the man to
> take
> > > responsiblity but if he is at risk for the support, he should
> also
> > be
> > > compensated in case the mother is compensated for the adoption.--
> -
> > In
> > > [email protected], "David Macko" <dmacko@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Since you don't have time to study the pro-life libertarian
> > > > position, in areas where my knowledge is incomplete I will
> > > > continue to rely on Ron Paul until you have obtained degrees
> > > > in obstetrics and gynecology, delivered at least 4,000 babies,
> > > > defended the cause of liberty in Congress for significant
> portions
> > > > of the last four decades and run for President of the United
> > States
> > > > as a life member of the Libertarian Party. Subject closed.
> > > >
> > > > For life and liberty,
> > > > David Macko
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Paul" <ptireland@>
> > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 12:35 PM
> > > > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Badnarik on Immigration
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why would I waste my time on a website based on a false
> premise,
> > and
> > > > which violates the most sacred of libertarian principles ....
> sole
> > > > dominion over our own body and the contents within.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected], "David Macko" <dmacko@>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Apparently you still have not had enough time to completely
> > > > > read all of the information at www.l4l.org.
> > > > >
> > > > > For life and liberty,
> > > > > David Macko
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Paul" <ptireland@>
> > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:48 AM
> > > > > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Badnarik on Immigration
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >A zygote is not a human being. It does not posess human
> > life.
> > > it has
> > > > > > the POTENTIAL for human life, but does not have it.
> Separate
> > > DNA does
> > > > > > not amount to human life. A fetus is not a whole human
> > being.
> > > A
> > > > > > whole human being is a fully sentient person and a fetus
> is
> > > not. We
> > > > > > can use Terry's definition of person if you choose.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit"
> > > <uncoolrabbit@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> A sperm cell is not human life but it has the potential
> to
> > be,
> > > a
> > > > > >> human egg cell is not human life but it has the potential
> to
> > > be so.
> > > > > >> A human fetus is not a piece of one human whole such as
> your
> > > arm, it
> > > > > >> is itself a human whole. You would be wiser to cop out
> and
> > > follow
> > > > > >> Terry's lead of personhood, as a human fetus is human.
> If
> > you
> > > sever
> > > > > >> your arm its self mutilation, suggesting problems that I
> am
> > > not
> > > > > >> trained to deal with.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > My arm is a human arm. It has human DNA, and it's
> alive.
> > > If I
> > > > > >> sever
> > > > > >> > my arm, have I murdered someone? Human life is
> different
> > > from any
> > > > > >> > other. Human life belongs to people (aka persons).
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Here are a list of things that do NOT qualify as HUMAN
> > > life.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > A beating heart
> > > > > >> > A cerebral cortex
> > > > > >> > A nervous system
> > > > > >> > Human DNA
> > > > > >> > Reflexive Actions or response to painful stimuli
> > > > > >> > Head, Torso, Hands, Feet, Fingers, Toes, Eyes, Ears,
> Nose,
> > > or Mouth
> > > > > >> > The shape of a human being
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > An acorn is not an oak tree but it has the POTENTIAL to
> be
> > > one.
> > > > > >> Dough
> > > > > >> > is not bread, but it has the POTENTIAL to be. A fetus
> is
> > > not a
> > > > > >> human
> > > > > >> > being but it has the POTENTIAL to be one.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > --- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit"
> > > <uncoolrabbit@>
> > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > On what basis do you feel it apropriate to twist,
> > contort
> > > and
> > > > > >> > > outright lie about my statements Terry? I attribute
> > > HUMANESS to
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >> > > fetus Terry. The response was to Paul, who does not
> > merely
> > > argue
> > > > > >> > > that a fetus does not fit a definition of personhood.
> > Paul
> > > > > >> outright
> > > > > >> > > claims that a human fetus is not human despite the
> fact
> > > that it
> > > > > >> is
> > > > > >> > > indead a human fetus, not a baboon fetus, not an
> > antelope
> > > fetus
> > > > > >> not
> > > > > >> > > anything like that. My post remains below yours to
> > remind
> > > you
> > > > > >> that
> > > > > >> > > not once did I use the word Personhood in it.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker"
> > > > > >> <txliberty@>
> > > > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > On what basis do you assert that the property of
> > > personhood be
> > > > > >> > > > attributed to a pre-born human individual?
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > Please see what I wrote in this forum as
> > > > > >> > > > 'PERSONHOOD: Abortion & beyond'
> > > > > >> > > > at
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/48100
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > -Terry Liberty Parker
> > > > > >> > > > http://profiles.yahoo.com/txliberty
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > --- In [email protected], "uncoolrabbit"
> > > > > >> <uncoolrabbit@>
> > > > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > A much better statement of yourpoint of view than
> > > recently,
> > > > > >> but
> > > > > >> > > > > you "obviously are trying to" strip the human
> > > atrribute from
> > > > > >> a
> > > > > >> > > > human
> > > > > >> > > > > organism, just as the slaver or the fascist
> before
> > > you. :)
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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