"I've read numerous accounts -- hundreds -- of the situation in Lebanon from many US and foreign news sources. Every single one of them reports that the Lebanese government and army are too weak to challenge Hezbollah. There is no peaceful means to handle Hezbollah wrongdoings. Do you challenge that?"
Is that any different than gangs in LA? Gangs kill people in LA all the time. Do you deny: I've read numerous accounts -- hundreds -- of the situation in LA from many US and foreign news sources. Every single one of them reports that the LA government and police are too weak to challenge the gangs. There is no peaceful means to handle gang wrongdoings. Do you challenge that? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Giramma To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror In your scenario, San Fran need not kidnap someone from LA nor bomb it. The reason is the system of law and cultural behavior that allows handling this through more targeted means. With Hezbollah's invasion of Israel and attack on it, there was no such mechanism for Israel to use. I've read numerous accounts -- hundreds -- of the situation in Lebanon from many US and foreign news sources. Every single one of them reports that the Lebanese government and army are too weak to challenge Hezbollah. There is no peaceful means to handle Hezbollah wrongdoings. Do you challenge that? From: Peter Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror You detracted again. So LA has no gangs? What if TWO gang members from LA go to San Fran and kidnap someone? Does that give San Fran the right to bomb LA? YES OR NO. Because that is essentially what happened in Lebanon. You say they "cant or wont" control them. This shows how little you really know about the situation. I was in Beirut less than a week when it got hit, and I had many friends both Lebanese, ex pats, and visitors who were tehre when it happened, and I was in Cyprus when it did, so we handled the hundreds of thousands of evacuees in Cyprus so I talked to a lot of them. You'll have to excuse me if I consider myself a bit more an authority on this subject than you. So by your statement, LA "cant" control the gangs, because there are gangs in LA.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Giramma To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror How do the victims from LA pursue the havoc-makers of San Francisco without going there? Hezbollah is based in Lebanon, and the Lebanese government can't and won't do anything about them. Israel therefore exercises its fundamental right of self-defense. From: Peter Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror Hezbollah - not Lebanon. And not very many of them. If some hoods from San Francisco go down to LA and cause some havoc, is it ok for LA to bomb the city of San Francisco to near ruins killing many innocent civilians in the process? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Giramma To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror AFAIK, Hezbollah had crossed over into Israel and launched missiles at it before Israel invaded Lebanon in pursuit. From: Peter Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 4:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror They dont have to stop defending themselves - but if they would stop being the schoolyard bully and going on the offensive it would be a big step. Or do you think invading and nearly destroying another country is justified for 2 kidnapped soldiers? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Giramma To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror You're right. The Israelis should just stop fighting and let the Arab savages slaughter them. Then there will be all that peace, freedom, and prosperity that primitive peoples are so good at. From: Peter Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 9:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror "I read elsewhere the US loses many points for its quasi-police state policies associated with the wars" No the freedom index I believe has to do with inside the borders. But I'd look closer to your home, Patriot Act, RICO, Draconian drug laws. Should I go on? "Israel would be ranked far higher if they didn't have war imposed on them every day of their existence" Much of this war is their own making. Especialy in recent years, even many Israelis are speaking out about this and its caused a lot of political splits. "Switzerland is fortunate to be surrounded by advanced and civilized people these days, making freedom a lot easier" You are distracting again. I mean after all, your right. The US and Canada are such ominous neighbors. And surely the UK has nasty neighbors.... Bordering countries has little to do with the index at all, except maybe in cases like Israel, but again much of that is self brought. They treat the Palestinians like sub humans with US weapons. Ie they drop bombs and rockets all the time in Palestine and often kill whole familes of innocents, but how dare a Palestinian fight back with a bomb on themselves - then the Israelis cry foul. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Giramma To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror I read elsewhere the US loses many points for its quasi-police state policies associated with the wars. That's typical of all nations at war, as they tighten up security in response to threats -- both real and perceived. For example, Israel would be ranked far higher if they didn't have war imposed on them every day of their existence. Switzerland is fortunate to be surrounded by advanced and civilized people these days, making freedom a lot easier. From: Peter Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 6:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror And if you look at the Indiividual Freedom rank, US is down at 19.... and several are tied at higher levels, so its 19th rank, not even 19th country. Not very imporessive! ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Giramma To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror It looks like the US does quite well in the liberty rankings: http://www.stateofworldliberty.org/report/rankings.html http://www.freetheworld.com/ef_map.html The Middle East Muslim nations, not so well. Switzerland has conscription military service. From: Peter Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Giramma To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [Libertarian] Stop the War FOR Terror Yeah, Patriot act... Not to mention how foreigners are treated. Guantanamo Bay? Waterboarding? Need I go on? You are looking through some very heavily fogged glasses here. Look at freedom rankings etc. The US not only is not at the top, but is going down the list in recent years. You should be looking at Switzerland and others instead. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Click for free info on college degrees. http://ads.lavabit.com/fc/Ioyw6kdba23sbzoRlYa4ehCEQoBUCzxqYreCysrI0UBxercEdwWj4i/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Visa, MasterCard, AMEX & Discover. Compare Offers & Apply Online. Click here! http://ads.lavabit.com/fc/Ioyw6kdcUnfgpVjQwGarakwkZeh5SEIX2lyZGWHcsWG78SIlqPmo8e/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Save up to 10% - 30% on Moving Supplies. Click here. http://ads.lavabit.com/fc/Ioyw6kdeBGHiObYvCPQ0CzhtweGS8mYQHpOp4Iih2YYAsZxpM1ur0j/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Click here for to find products that will help grow your small business. http://ads.lavabit.com/fc/Ioyw6kdcaPL69vhQRzV89oYAVEsjGmIhVpmfmcnfRZOqnEZhK0J3km/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Take a perfect family vacation to Orlando. Click Here. http://ads.lavabit.com/fc/Ioyw6kdcnd3b7NxpbvxkFIjgTXkp2j1gLqQkvBnUfbFFhM9KGVMVSZ/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Make order out of chaos with a new filing cabinet. Click now! http://ads.lavabit.com/fc/Ioyw6kdb8lCxsFhd2GFI4BDrF0EHZNPZFlnkhujZ1DgzPLzVUUB3zO/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
