On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Wilson MacGyver <[email protected]>wrote:
> > Wouldn't Ch6 on actors be useful too? Not for getting to the To Do app. In this case, I think less is more... learn enough Scala to understand how to do basic Lift stuff. Get success with building a Lift app. Go back to Chapter 6, learn Actors. Go back to Lift and do Comet stuff. Do victory dance. > But yea, Ch7 would be too much. > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:59 PM, David > Pollak<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Wilson MacGyver <[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> > >> I would like to suggest David's "Beginning Scala" book. It's written > >> for new comer. And has lots of examples that you can play with > >> using Scala's REPL. > > > > Heh... you beat me to the suggestion... ;-) > > > > Chapters 2-5 of Beginning Scala should give you some grounding in Scala > > syntax and how to do cool things with Scala. Whatever you do, stay away > > from Chapter 7... it's a big nasty scary thing and is not needed for the > > kind of code you're writing. > > > > Once you get through BegSca 2-5, go on to > > http://liftweb.net/docs/getting_started.html There may be gaps between > the > > two, but if you point out the gaps, we'll fill them in both online and in > > the Getting Started document. > > > >> > >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:22 PM, eric cs<[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> > David, awesome ideas you got there,thanks, about posting my > >> > improvements and stuff, pretty unique really and it will helps for > >> > future programers as well specially coming raw into Scala. > >> > I totally agree with you, maybe Scala is too much for a new guy who > >> > doesn't know some basic and advanced concepts or doesn't know how to > >> > put everything together? > >> > Totally agree there, but please tell a way, a book who will teach that > >> > foundation that has some examples in practice as well. > >> > I could install Scala do all that you mention but I don't know where > >> > to go from there which itens/classes/objects should I add to start > >> > building a app from scratch. > >> > I am looking for some book right now, like Code Complete 2,Clean Code: > >> > A Handbook of Agile Software Craftsmanship. > >> > I know what a method/function is what it does, I know what a class is, > >> > an Interface,Object,inheritance, but I can't put everything together > >> > yet, I know some of the theory and concepts, I think I need a good > >> > book that teaches how o put everything together. > >> > If you guys know some...please let me know. > >> > What's more, after that I will need to learn why scala is so > >> > diferent,powerfull,improved from Java or Ruby in concepts,theory,way > >> > to program and do things, in case you know a book about that too would > >> > be awesome. > >> > > >> > Is like a person who know what a cement is, water,tools, but doesn't > >> > know how to construct something, with pavers some people knows what it > >> > is but doesn't know how to pave and how some paver patterns with help > >> > with that, he can just put random pavers on the ground because is > >> > gonna be a mess, same thing with coding I think..hehe > >> > Thanks. > >> > > >> > On Jul 6, 12:00 pm, Wilson MacGyver <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> I would echo David's comment. Scala is a powerful language with high > >> >> complexity budget. I think it's important to learn the fundamentals > of > >> >> Scala first and build on top of it. > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:52 AM, David > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Pollak<[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > Eric, > >> >> > >> >> > It seems that you want to hike the Appalachain Trail at marathon > >> >> > speeds. > >> >> > I'm not sure it can be done. It took me 18 months with Scala > before > >> >> > I felt > >> >> > comfortable with it and my learning curve with new languages is > >> >> > pretty good > >> >> > (it took 2 weeks to get comfortable with Ruby and 3 months before I > >> >> > felt > >> >> > that I had mastered it.) I do not yet consider myself a Scala > guru, > >> >> > although I consider myself very skilled with it. > >> >> > >> >> > All of us have different learning styles, but I'm not sure that > your > >> >> > goal of > >> >> > understanding object hierarchies before sitting down to code is one > >> >> > that I'd > >> >> > recommend. > >> >> > >> >> > I'd suggest playing with small pieces and getting them to work for > >> >> > you. > >> >> > Perhaps the following order might be a starting place: > >> >> > >> >> > Install Scala 2.7.5 and just play with the REPL (the interactive > >> >> > interpreter.) This will give you a good feeling of what can be > done > >> >> > with > >> >> > Scala. See how data can be manipulated. (3 or 4 days... perhaps > >> >> > assisted by > >> >> > Beginning Scala.) > >> >> > Install Maven on your machine and create the Lift hello world app: > >> >> >http://wiki.liftweb.net/index.php/HowTo_start_a_new_liftwebapp(1<http://wiki.liftweb.net/index.php/HowTo_start_a_new_liftwebapp%281>to > >> >> > 2 > >> >> > days... also use a normal text editor, not an IDE... installing > IDEs > >> >> > can be > >> >> > a rats nest of problems... TextMate for the Mac is the best choice, > >> >> > but vi > >> >> > or emacs are also good if you already know them.) > >> >> > Run through the ToDo example in Lift (5 or 6 days) > >> >> > >> >> > By this point, you should have a bucket full of questions. Ask > >> >> > them. Ask > >> >> > them as your going. Ask them when you get to breaking points. > >> >> > >> >> > As you're spending your two weeks touring through Scala and Lift, > >> >> > start > >> >> > thinking about what you want to build. Think from the UI back > (that > >> >> > tends > >> >> > to be the easiest for most people... then think about how to > interact > >> >> > with > >> >> > something and then go backward from it.) Scala allows for better > >> >> > "composition" of application (using smaller parts to make bigger > >> >> > functionality rather than thinking about gross level object > >> >> > abstractions). > >> >> > So, draw your UI on a piece of paper and then start writing down > what > >> >> > pieces > >> >> > each UI component needs. You should be able to build a simple, > piece > >> >> > by > >> >> > piece screen that does what you want it to. Once you've got it > >> >> > working, > >> >> > think about how to combine and normalize pieces of functionality. > >> >> > >> >> > As always, we're here for you. The Lift community will help you, > but > >> >> > we ask > >> >> > that you document your learning (perhaps via blog or wiki or > Twitter) > >> >> > so > >> >> > others have the benefit of the work you've done. > >> >> > >> >> > Thanks, > >> >> > >> >> > David > >> >> > >> >> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:14 AM, eric cs <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >> Guys, > >> >> >> Thank you very much for all your answers. > >> >> >> Having a community like that, I know is half way there for anyone. > >> >> >> I am very very very eager to learn, that's my number one priorite > >> >> >> right now and the e-commerce is an example to work with some real > >> >> >> application and apply logic and a database to learn how put the > >> >> >> classes together. > >> >> >> It's not a hobbie I found another passion in my life besides my > >> >> >> wife, > >> >> >> my dog, my music and it's web programming. > >> >> >> I like it all since css,ajax to actionscript to back side > languages > >> >> >> and the logic behind it.That's why I quit Civil Engineering and > move > >> >> >> to Computer Science years ago, but some stuff happens > >> >> >> yada,yada.yada, > >> >> >> here I am several years later trying to learn again. > >> >> >> I feel better and more prepared than before and without > >> >> >> distractions. > >> >> >> I said a month but I have all the time in my hands right now so it > >> >> >> could be until 2010 if necessary, full time. I wish I could work > >> >> >> doing > >> >> >> something like this sometime. > >> >> >> Before I even learn scala, I have to get the logic how to create > an > >> >> >> app first in my head, like which items would an object and they > will > >> >> >> related to each other then to a database,it's not about create a > >> >> >> simple program only,abstract,it's about how to put all little > >> >> >> programns together to create something, in this case could be an > e- > >> >> >> commerce.Then I could learn the advanced concepts of Scala, > >> >> >> functional > >> >> >> programming and stuff like that. > >> >> >> Maybe an e-commerce has a lot of logic involved is a good start to > >> >> >> get > >> >> >> my head around programming web apps with that example. > >> >> >> I don't know if you guys understand what I meant,what I need to > >> >> >> learn > >> >> >> first, but even a book that explains that would be good, I read > some > >> >> >> books about design patterns and stuff but none of them applied in > a > >> >> >> real application. > >> >> >> It's not even regular regular programming logic, I need to learn > >> >> >> like > >> >> >> how a put a app in a modular way, one thing on top of eachother, I > >> >> >> don't know it that's the way to think about that, how classes will > >> >> >> interact with eachother,Interfaces. > >> >> >> Anyway, keep your advices coming and in case you know a book that > >> >> >> explains that would be awesome. > >> >> >> Thanks again. > >> >> > >> >> >> wat > >> >> >> On Jul 6, 6:01 am, Eric Bowman <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> > To this I would add: > >> >> > >> >> >> > The way to learn to program, is to program. It takes a lot of > >> >> >> > time, and > >> >> >> > a lot of hard work. Reading books is good, and necessary, but > >> >> >> > it's not > >> >> >> > enough. > >> >> > >> >> >> > Also, Lift really uses Scala to the max, so if you only have 30 > >> >> >> > days, I > >> >> >> > would plan to spend the first half just becoming good at Scala. > >> >> >> > Which > >> >> >> > will take longer than 15 days! > >> >> > >> >> >> > Anyhow, being a "guru" is a life ambition. It takes time, time, > >> >> >> > time > >> >> >> > and more time. All your time. A history of "unfinished" is > going > >> >> >> > to > >> >> >> > work against you -- this will take serious dedication and > >> >> >> > stick-to-it-ness. > >> >> > >> >> >> > An insightful view from Google's Director of > >> >> >> > Research:http://norvig.com/21-days.html > >> >> > >> >> >> > Naftoli Gugenhem wrote: > >> >> >> > > I would say that the main advantage knowledge of Java over a > >> >> >> > > similar > >> >> >> > > language gives you is knowledge of the Java environment and > >> >> >> > > system, but you > >> >> >> > > can pick that up via scala too. > >> >> >> > > As far as turning theory into actual programming, my personal > >> >> >> > > advice > >> >> >> > > is to take one small sample, get it running, and then ask > >> >> >> > > yourself questions > >> >> >> > > like "Why does it do this?" and "What if I change this." Once > >> >> >> > > you have a > >> >> >> > > thorough understanding of how the sample accomplishes what it > >> >> >> > > was supposed > >> >> >> > > to accomplish, and how all the parts contribute to that, > repeat > >> >> >> > > with another > >> >> >> > > one. Along the way ask yourself, "What if I want the computer > to > >> >> >> > > do xyz > >> >> >> > > (similar to sample x)?" Also, play around in the interpreter > >> >> >> > > trying > >> >> >> > > different permutations. > >> >> >> > > Of course, it goes without saying to read the books and > >> >> >> > > articles, not > >> >> >> > > to mention to ask all your questions on the scala-user list. > >> >> >> > > Enjoy! > >> >> > >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------- > >> >> >> > > eric cs<[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >> > > Hi guys, > >> >> > >> >> >> > > I saw some posts on Scala website about helping newcomers and > I > >> >> >> > > was > >> >> >> > > wondering if some of you would be kind enough to help me out > to > >> >> >> > > start > >> >> >> > > with Scala/Lift. > >> >> >> > > My main problem is I am not a programmer yet but I really > really > >> >> >> > > want > >> >> >> > > to be, I've been studying Ruby/Rails, > >> >> >> > > Php/Zend/Symfony,Mvc,Design > >> >> >> > > Patterns,Uml,Sql and some Java. I read some books but I don't > >> >> >> > > get my > >> >> >> > > head to think like a programer. > >> >> >> > > I really like OO,Design Patterns, Uml but I don't know how to > >> >> >> > > apply > >> >> >> > > that to a full application, how to link everything together, > >> >> >> > > classes,objects(books about that?Not about those items but how > >> >> >> > > to put > >> >> >> > > everything together)...I know a lot of the theory and concepts > >> >> >> > > but no > >> >> >> > > practice. > >> >> >> > > I have all july available to learn that 12 hours a day or more > >> >> >> > > if > >> >> >> > > necessary I just need a push, someone to teach/help me out. > >> >> >> > > What's more, I saw a post saying that I could learn Scala from > >> >> >> > > scratch > >> >> >> > > without learning Java, it's possible, not so much with Groovy. > >> >> >> > > If it's > >> >> >> > > not what parts of Java do I need to know, in case some of you > >> >> >> > > tell me > >> >> >> > > learn Java first(the easy answer).Do I need a lot of > experience > >> >> >> > > in > >> >> >> > > Java to jump in in Scala? I know it helps but I would like to > >> >> >> > > finish > >> >> >> > > my first e-commerce in august, 100% opensource in Scala if > >> >> >> > > possible. > >> >> > >> >> >> > > P.s:I did 2 years of Computer Science C++ and 2 years of Civil > >> >> >> > > Engineering over 12 years ago both unfinished. > >> >> > >> >> >> > -- > >> >> >> > Eric Bowman > >> >> >> > Boboco Ltd > >> >> >> > [email protected]http://www.boboco.ie/ebowman/pubkey.pgp > >> >> >> > +35318394189/+353872801532- Hide quoted text - > >> >> > >> >> >> > - Show quoted text - > >> >> > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net > >> >> > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 > >> >> > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp > >> >> > Git some:http://github.com/dpp > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum.- Hide quoted text - > >> >> > >> >> - Show quoted text - > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum. > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net > > Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 > > Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp > > Git some: http://github.com/dpp > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum. > > > > -- Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp Git some: http://github.com/dpp --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lift" group. 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