On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:02 AM, jonathan mawson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > Timothy Perrett wrote: > > > > By all means, come here with questions and you will find this group to be > > very responsive and helpful, but do not come here and automatically > assume > > that you can illuminate to us the errors in our project marketing or > > experience. > > > > What's automatic about Mark's analysis? He's a new Lift user, he's told you > what the new user experience is like - he did the appropriate work to be > able to do this. If there is anything automatic here it is your dismissal > of > the problems that Mark had. This sort of user feedback is gold - he's made > a > real effort to tell you what trying to get started with Lift was like for > him. And reading what Mark wrote, I'm sure that he is much brighter and > more > interested in Lift than the average Java/RoR programmer. > > > Lift is not Rails. It really bugs me when people are like "oh, well rails > does XYZ". > > The guy never said it was. He explained why he switched to Rails and why he > thinks Rails has been successful. > > The important point that Rails people who want their framework to takeoff > have to understand here is ***that at no time during Mark's experience did > anyone communicate a reason to him why Lift was worth persevering with.*** > That's what marketing is about. If Mark had known there was a strong enough > potential benefit then he would have persisted. At the moment Lift's only > perceived benefit seems to be that it provides you with a web framework for > Scala. That's a nice strategy for getting a couple of dozen FPophiles to > commit code, but it won't take Lift anywhere in the real world of "What > does > this framework do for my project/career/business." > > You need to start telling people what Lift especially well so that they > have > some idea why they might use it! The best effort I have seen to do this > comes not from the Lift community but from another reviewer, here - > > > http://ikaisays.com/2009/03/03/first-impressions-of-lift-scala-web-development-framework-from-a-ruby-on-rails-developer/ > > Other concerns: > > - I suspect that Lift has enough mass inside the Scala community to prevent > the emergence of another web framework. And that without an acceptable web > framework Scala - which I am now 100% in love with - will not be a > successful language. > > - How much of the difficulty that people seem to have in using Lift is > intrinsic to the framework and how much to poor docs? What are the > ***pay-offs*** for those design decisions that have made Lift harder to > use? > You mistake different with harder. People who are used to one way to do things will find different harder than the same. In the case of view-first, there are plenty of posts as to why it's better. In the case of Maven, there are plenty of posts and discussions on that matter as well. More broadly, and I wish I had pointed this out to the OP, Lift projects are typically smaller than similar Rails projects. The couple of ports I've done, I've seen some substantive code reductions and significant test code reductions. And, what I've gotten in addition to a smaller code base is higher performance, more security, and more maintainability. So, Lift is in fact not harder to use. > (Even when this simply means less Rails-like.) Communicating these would go > a long way to reducing newbie frustration. Is Lift even designed to have as > wide an appeal as RoR or Grails? If not, be frank about it and communicate > where its strengths lie. > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://old.nabble.com/superficial-first-impressions-from-a-rails-junkie-tp27802055p27805572.html > Sent from the liftweb mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lift" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<liftweb%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en. > > -- Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp Surf the harmonics -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lift" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en.
