On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:50 AM, jonathan mawson <umpti...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> Jeppe Nejsum Madsen wrote:
> >
> > Timothy Perrett <timo...@getintheloop.eu> writes:
> >
> >> Sorry Jeppe, but I disagree.
> >
> > On which part :-) Maybe the "not really into the visual
> > aesthetics". What I meant was not that we don't care, but more that we
> > will rather spend time on coding.
> >
> >> The issue to date has been getting someone to work on it for
> >> free... The recession has worked against us here because people have
> >> been hand-to-mouth work wise, and couldn't spare time that wasn't paid
> >> for.
> >
> > Look at it this way: Committers work on the code for free and I guess
> > that's also the case for many other OSS projects. Yet some still manage
> > to create visually pleasing websites & introduction material. I can only
> > (perhaps falsely?)  attribute this to the difference in focus/skills of
> > the team.
> >
> >> I actually come from a marketing / design background, and have tried
> >> to move this aspect of Lift along, but its been problematic with
> >> designers not committing and so forth. Lift needs a rebrand / restyle,
> >> yes, however, its easier said than done.
> >
> > My point exactly. If someone on the Lift community feels strong enough
> > about this (and has the skills) it would move forward in the same way as
> > the code...alas it doesn't, so we need to force it by trying to
> > hire/manage someone external.
> >
> > /Jeppe
> >
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> >
> >
>
> Rebranding Lift wouldn't be about logos. They're irrelevant to a product
> aimed at programmers. You need to identify an occupy-able niche and then
> communicate your advantage in that niche to the right people. That means
> saying convincingly
>
> - Lift does X better than existing solutions
> - Here's why you should believe that and invest time
> - Here is how to get started
>
> And that X has to be very concrete.


You mean:

Lift stresses the importance of security, maintainability, scalability and
performance, while allowing for high levels of developer productivity.



At the moment Lift's brand is "It uses
> Scala", "It has a reputation for being hard", and "I don't know if anyone
> is
> really using it".
>
> You also have to kill the potential killer negatives - eg concerns that
> Lift
> will still be around in two or three years.
>

This is more of a concern about Scala in general.  Every available metric
points to the fact that Lift has reached critical mass.  Our community is
larger than Wicket's.  Our code velocity is faster than Wicket's. Etc.

The bigger issue that I've heard from the corporate adoption side is "will
Scala be around in 2 years?"


>
> I would also say that re-branding needs to happen *fast* before attention
> focuses on Grails - there is only so much new mindshare available at any
> time.
>

Every Grails vs. Lift bake-off I've been involved, Lift has won hands down.
Once you do Ajax or Comet, Lift wins.  Once you try to scale, Lift wins.
More generally, ever Java shop that's adopted Groovy and then Scala has
dumped Groovy.

The advantage that Groovy/Grails has is SpringSource/VMWare.  But actual
adoption is waning (just look at Tiobe).

There will be an answer to the corporate types looking for support on Lift
and Scala in the next few weeks.


>
>
>
>
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>
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-- 
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
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