Linux-Advocacy Digest #220, Volume #27 Tue, 20 Jun 00 23:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Charlie Ebert the LinoShill ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Stupid idiots that think KDE is a Window Manager (Charlie Ebert)
Re: How many times, installation != usability. (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes ("Christopher Smith")
Re: slashdot is down -again- ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The MEDIA this year! (Charlie Ebert)
Re: DirectX equivalent (JEDIDIAH)
Re: I had a reality check today :( (JEDIDIAH)
Re: It's all about the microsurfs (JEDIDIAH)
Re: DirectX equivalent ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The Linux Challenge (Craig Kelley)
Re: 486 Linux setup, 250 meg HD, which distro ??? (Richard Petty)
Re: Linux is awesome! (JEDIDIAH)
Re: How many times, installation != usability. (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux is awesome! (JEDIDIAH)
Re: I had a reality check today :( (Craig Kelley)
Re: It's all about the microsurfs (Jimmy Navarro)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Charlie Ebert the LinoShill
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:19:07 GMT
And they all have web pages...
How about a link Charlie?
If you have read them surely you have a link?
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:10:45 GMT, Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> So now we have this Charlie Ebert person, who has YET to back up any
>> of his wild ass claims with any proof.
>>
>> Come on Charlie?
>>
>> Where's the Beef?
>>
>> How about some proof for all of these half assed claims you keep
>> spouting here?
>>
>> We are waiting...................................................
>>
>> Somehow I think we will be waiting a long time.........
>
>And as I said before Simon777.
>Just pick up any computer magazine from your office or Grocery store.
>
>Now, is that so hard.
>
>That's a BIG BOY.
>
>Charlie
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Stupid idiots that think KDE is a Window Manager
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:24:54 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Learn to read asshole...
> I said Caching (not cashing like YOU prefer to call it) only applies
> to repetitive tasks. For example opening the same directory 15 time in
> a row.
>
Yes, once again. This is why you required your victim to RE-BOOT his
Linux box before the test became valid.
But again, people don't normally re-boot their machines every 5 minutes
Simon. This is why you REQUIRED the Linux victim to RE-BOOT his machine
before you could accept his results.
See, under NT, a re-boot wouldn't matter as it doesn't cashe anything.
It just goes out to the drive to collect the same information, time and
time again, no matter how repetitive the task was.
> The first opening will be x time, the subsequent openings will be x -
> some factor due to caching (not cashing like you call it)....
Humm. Well we are making some progress here. The patient is showing
some signs of rudimentary intelligence.
He's clearly indicating that repetitive disk tasks under Linux do seem
to run better the second time around because of 'some' cashing function.
And he has admitted that Windows seems to run the same speed all the
time.
So, Simon777.
I guess that a Memory cache and an X cache are different to you.
Even though it was the kernel doing the caching here, you still
have a variable amount of KDE cache
It's so exciting! It reminds me of that famous scene in 2001 at
the beginning. Where one Monkey learns to use a club for the first
time ever. Just remember that a club is a club Simon777.
And you were all thinking Linux advocacy was a waste of time!
Poof!
My Monkey is learning to club here! Cut me some slack!
>
> The bottom line is, that kfm is several factors slower than Explorer
> in opening, for the first time, cold boot, a directory of a similar
> number of files.
No it's not. But I'm not disappointed in your so far!
I think your doing quite well so far.
Soon, I will make you and the rest of the newsgroup will understand
why. In terms even you can understand.
So just be patient. Okay.
>
> And in my experience it aint even close....
Umm humm.
>
> Explorer is instantaneous and kfm churns on and on and on....
>
> Prove it asshole.....
Are you asking yourself to prove your assertion here or what?
Okay,
That's enough for this message.
Back to the cave with your for some more thinking.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How many times, installation != usability.
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:26:25 GMT
mlw wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > Check their webpage.
> >
> > Suffice to say you are getting 1/4 of the cards true power running
> > Linux.....
>
> Let me get this right, just for the sake of argument.
>
> What does an SBLive card cost? What does W2K or W98SE cost?
Hummmmm. I hope we are not implying the SBLive doesn't work under
Linux!
That's the card I'm using and it works just fine. Always has.
DVD plays real well also.
Charlie
>
> Is this really an important thing? There are many sound cards supported
> by Linux, buy one of those. It is still cheaper than an SBLive card and
> your choice of W2k or w98se.
>
> Linux will not run all hardware, nor will w2k. Big f%5ing deal. That's
> what "Hardware Compatibility Lists" are for.
>
> >
> > On 16 Jun 2000 15:38:40 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (david parsons)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>Yawwwnnnn...Same old Linux lies...
> > >>
> > >>And I'm sure you get to use all of those features that work under
> > >>Windows with your shiny new SBLive under Linux?
> > >
> > > Beats me. Send me a SBLive and a copy of Windows and I'll be happy to
> > > do a feature comparison for you.
> > >
> > > ____
> > > david parsons \bi/ It is admirable that you can reel 'em in this easily,
> > > \/ but you're still shooting fish in a barrel.
>
> --
> Mohawk Software
> Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
> Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
> Nepotism proves the foolishness of at least two people.
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:30:19 +1000
"tinman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8ios1s$e6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > And that means...? Data storage media is data storage media. I don't
> > care if it's a 40GB SCSI disk, a DVD, a Jaz disk or a 1.2MB 5 1/4"
> > floppy. It's all the same to Linux and Mac. Now, why exactly does it
> > have to be difficult, er, different on Windows?
> >
>
> Ask the windows folks that, although I'm not at all sure that they are
> treated differently under windows.
Because they *are* different. Removable and fixed media have some
fundamental differences.
Although I'd imagine the vast majority of "differences" in Windows (eg not
being able to partition floppy disks) are only at the UI level, rather than
the OS level.
> My point's just that if floppies and
> removable hard drives are treated differently, it's only logical that a
> zip would be treated like a floppy and a jaz would be treated as a
> removable HD, since that's basically what they are. ('
I wish I had a zip and jaz drive to test it with, but I'm certain I've heard
of people partitioning Jaz (and Zip) drives under NT.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: slashdot is down -again-
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:22:49 GMT
In article <394ff259$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Francis Van Aeken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Of all the sites I frequent, Slashdot is the only one that is
regularly down.
>
> Why is that?
>
> Francis.
>
Define "down". I frequent Slashdot daily and haven't had a problem in
weeks.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The MEDIA this year!
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:43:39 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Facts Charlie how about some facts...
>
> do you want for me to play Mark S. Bilk and go into Deja and bring up
> all of the wild claims you have made and ask for proeef?
Well! This is a shock!
Mark S. Bilk?
Well, I guess this means your just a large floating pile of shit then?
That nothing you've ever said has ever had any meaning as your using
false identities and your spamming the Linux Advocacy!
I first thought you were just a stupid Windows idiot, now you tell
me that your a spammer...
Well that's just fine! Just fine!!!
All this time I've spent thinking that I could turn my club swining
monkey
into a computer USER!!!! An intelligent Computer user!!!
Well, this day is forever burned into my diary!
06-20-00:
Made contact with Monkey.
Showed monkey the benefits of cashing in computer operating
systems.
Monkey revealed himself as Mark S. Bilk.
Heart broken.
That's my fucking diary entry for the day!
There! Are you satisfied!
Charlie
>
> I can prove my .3 percent Linux market share...
>
> Can YOU prove ANYTHING of what you have spouted here?
>
> I doubt it......
>
> I highly doubt it......\
>
> On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:55:15 GMT, Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >I would like everyone to note the flaring testicles of
> >the Simon777 creature as he's being cornered for the kill.
> >
> >It's a colorful sight.
> >
> >Charlie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Salvador Peralta wrote:
> >>
> >> Charlie Ebert wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Oh crap! Pick up any computer magazine at your local office they have.
> >> > I want other people to post to this and give him your side of it.
> >> >
> >> > Charlie
> >>
> >> I would, but everytime that I post some factual data which sheds some
> >> light on the fact that linux is the fastest growing os in the server
> >> market, WinTrolls like simon777 start scurrying under the floorboards.
> >>
> >> *sigh* Here's some links...
> >>
> >> Here's one that gives a figure for how many IT managers planned to
> >> replace existing systems with linux:
> >>
> >>
>http://www.infotechtrends.com/cgi-bin/cif/sub_read.pl?ux=&quar=99Q2&99245030.htm=on
> >>
> >> Here's one which says how many it managers intend to put linux on the
> >> desktop in the next 12 months:
> >>
> >>
>http://www.infotechtrends.com/cgi-bin/cif/sub_read.pl?ux=&quar=99Q2&99245030.htm=on
> >>
> >> Here's one which charts the growth of the linux userbase from 1995-1998:
> >>
> >>
>http://www.infotechtrends.com/cgi-bin/cif/sub_read.pl?ux=&quar=99Q1&99145016.htm=on
> >>
> >> Add those to the others that I posted on Saturday in the "How many linux
> >> users thread.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Salvador Peralta
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> http://www.la-online.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: DirectX equivalent
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:44:09 GMT
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:39:09 -0300, Francis Van Aeken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Just wondering, is there a DirectX equivalent in Linux?
>
>If so, what component model does it use? CORBA?
Those are orthogonal sorts of things...
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: I had a reality check today :(
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:47:41 GMT
On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:29:13 -0700, Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Daughter graduating middle school this week and going into high
>> school and I thought a nice desktop computer system would make a
>> worthwhile graduation present.
>>
>> I have ALWAYS built every single one of my systems in the past all
>> the way from DTK motherboard based PC clones up to the Abit based
>> system I have now. Never, ever,ever, bought a pre-load.
>>
>> This time, possibly due to laziness or just a wearing down by all of
>> the glossy advertisements in the Sunday NY Times, I decided to go out
>> and look at all of these "ready made" systems that the typical Joe 18
>> pack will buy.
>>
>> BTW my daughter wants an iMac. Anybody know anything about them?
>>
>> Anyway, I went to CompUSA, Staples, Electronic City and several local
>> places, the kind of places I would avoid like the plague on my quest
>> and here is what I found.
>>
>> 1. Win Hardware is EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!
>> Motherboards have built in modems, Ethernet, SoundChips, video
>> and so forth. Much of this is Win hardware.
>>
>> 2. The included printer is usually some POS Win printer. Same for
>> scanner and USB devices are sometimes included as well.
>>
>> 3. The operating system is always Win 98SE and no credit is given for
>> not getting it.
>>
>> 4. Internet bundles (you are hostage to Compu$erve for 3 years) are
>> typically used to lower price.
>>
>> 5. You get a bunch of low priced software and nothing of real
>> substance. The exception was MS Works which is pretty decent.
>>
>>
>> The iMac is starting to look better all the time :)
>>
>> Anyway, my point is that this is the typical way that a user buys a
>> computer. They are not like you and me who build our own, they walk
>> into a chain store and buy what seems, to them, to be the best value.
>>
>> My question is, how is Linux going to realistically overcome this?
>>
>> Looking at the specs for Compaq, HP, Sony VIAO and others, absolutely
>> NONE of these would run Linux and support all the I/O devices the
>> person paid for.
>>
>> This IS the computer hardware market, like it or not. And I for one
>> DON't like it.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>>
>>
>
>Hello! It's about time the Linux world recognized that not everyone
>likes to buy computer kits and put them together. Some people like to
This is still not an excuse for garbage.
>buy computers and use them. (Bear with me ... I'm a Maccie who finds
>himself strangely attracted to investigating Linux. My Yellow Dog and a
>big ol' hard drive are in the mail.)
>
>1. What to get your daughter? I'd recommend the iMac. It's what she
>wants, and it's a kickass machine for the artistically inclined. (Please
>forgive my stereotypical presumptions.)
>
>2. What to do about the wide variety of hardware and bundled software?
>This is hard ... Do you really *want* Linux to take over Windows'
>position? Then you have to make something better than Windows ... which
>means that it works with all the existing hardware and software, right,
>the first time, without any problems. (Never mind all the stuff about
Windows doesn't even do that. It doesn't even come close.
[deletia]
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: It's all about the microsurfs
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:49:55 GMT
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:10:03 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Nobody on line at MEI Microcenter buying those HP Pavillion computers
>pre-loaded with Windows gives a rat's ass.
>
>Linux isn't even an option to the 90 or so percent of the public.
>
>These people walk into a computer supermarket and say to the sales
>person "give me your best deal".
...unfortunately, companies like HP have to contend with
software licencing overhead when formulating such "best
deals".
[deletia]
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: DirectX equivalent
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:37:08 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Francis Van Aeken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just wondering, is there a DirectX equivalent in Linux?
>
> If so, what component model does it use? CORBA?
>
> Francis.
>
XFree86 4.0 is rumored to be adding some DirectX equivalency which could
be both good and bad. When my company's tech support staff runs
Norton's CleanSweep/WinDoctor on a hopelessly hosed Windows PC, most of
the errors it finds and fixes are DirectX-related. If XFree86 4.0 has
tighter hooks into the Linux kernel to make realtime gaming viable on
Linux, then this is a "good thing"(tm). If, however, it adds hooks into
the OS that make it vulnerable to thrashing and crashing like DirectX
does, then this is a "bad thing".
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: The Linux Challenge
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 20 Jun 2000 20:51:34 -0600
"Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> David Steinberg wrote:
>
> > BR ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > : http://www.networkcomputing.com/1112/1112f1.html
> > : Read it. Reflect on it. Enjoy it.
> >
> > One piece of information (just from the introduction) that jumped out at
> > me was this:
> >
> > And Alpha Processors Inc. (API) says the focus on Linux after
> > Microsoft decided to stop supporting the Alpha platform has
> > contributed to the 45 percent increase API has seen in Alpha sales.
> >
> > I had never heard that before. In fact, I've never before heard of
> > hardware sales INCREASING because a major software product stops
> > supporting it!
> >
> > Although I can't figure out the logic behind it, apparently it's true: the
> > market sees the alpha as a more viable platform without NT than with it.
>
> But was NT 64 bit on alpha?
No, but Windows 2000 Datacenter will be.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Richard Petty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: 486 Linux setup, 250 meg HD, which distro ???
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:54:46 GMT
Any of them, really.
I just installed TurboLinux (CD came free with a NIC) on a 486 that I'm
going to route and web serve with, too, and the "server" style install
took 170-megabytes.
--Richard
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, peter
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm setting up two 486 linux systems, one will be a small web sever,
>firewall, and ip masq.
>
>The other will be a machine to write perl programs on.
>
>I have two 250 meg drives, I don't plan to install X, so which distro
>is out there that will allow me to do what i want to do on the 486's
>???
--
Spam deterent: Remove the "BOGUS" part for a correct address.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Linux is awesome!
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:55:55 GMT
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:44:03 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On 21 Jun 2000 00:24:10 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk) wrote:
>
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>Ha ha....
>>>
>>>If you only knew...
>>>
>>>Ever hear of an IBM 2821?
>>>IBM 3330?
>>>IBM 3340?
>>>IBM 3033?
>>>
>>>Look them up and that will give you a slight clue as to how long I
>>>have been in this (the computer) business.
>>>
>>>You most likely weren't even born yet...
>>>
>>>On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:32:56 -0500, Nathaniel Jay Lee
>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>pac4854 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't feed the trolls.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once his acne goes into remission, and he graduates from high
>>>>> school, and he finally gets laid, he'll go away.
>>
>>They have to be answered. Otherwise people reading this
>>newsgroup to find out about Linux may believe the lies
>>posted by the anti-Linux spammers like Steve/Mike/...
>
>Linux sucks Mark and you know it. The only reason you support it is
>because it fits into the cult like left wing, screw the establishment
>ala "Pacifica Radio" which you seem to believe in and support.
Your understanding of politics is no less "advanced" as
anything else you care to comment on. It is the "left wing"
that is pro-establishment and chooses to support an ever
growing governmental borg.
You've got things ass-backwards.
>
>You are entitled to your opinion as I am, but if you look at Linux vs
>just about any OS out there you will see that it is a work in prgress
>and in need of a lot of help. If you are willing to settle for second
The same is true of the "market leader". If anything, this is
the best argument that something like Linux can actually take
the market...
...just another thin GUI veneer bolted onto a "nasty"
CLI taking over the world...
>rate hardware support and second rate applications than Linux may be
>just the ticket to your left wing dreams.
>
>Think about it...
This is just empty rhetoric. Many of us don't need the "whole
CompUSA". I'd venture to say that most don't and that so called
"quality applications" are actually holding us back by allowing
Robber Barons to wield control of the market through vendorlock.
[deletia]
It is actually the "right wing" that claims to abhor excessive
central authority.
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: How many times, installation != usability.
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 20 Jun 2000 20:54:10 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> open /dev and time how long kfm's little gear takes before it stops
> spinning.
>
> Fresh boot, no cache involved. First thing you do after rebooting.
NT4 performs much worse on the System32 directory; and that "folder"
has fewer files.
I wouldn't know about Windows 2000, because we haven't even seen it
yet.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Linux is awesome!
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:56:57 GMT
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:40:56 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>The point is, which you have missed, is that I have seen more come and
>go in my lifetime than you have.
>
>Linux will fade just like the 2821 and it's attached 1403 and 3525
>card punch.
...except it's a part of a family of OSes that just keep
on lingering: despite all of the claims that they would
die soon...
[deletia]
--
If you know what you want done, it is quite often more useful to
tell the machine what you want it to do rather than merely having
the machine tell you what you are allowed to do.
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: I had a reality check today :(
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 20 Jun 2000 20:56:25 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> That's ok. If Linux can prove it is better than Windows, or Mac, I
> will use it.
It's already better in many meters.
Using contrived meters, like multiplexing data over 2 nics or the
speed with which an *application* opens the /dev directory, is
meaningless.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Jimmy Navarro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: It's all about the microsurfs
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:47:09 -0700
Charlie Root wrote:
> You know, if the supreme court turns Microsoft down, they'd better be sure
> to release the opinion AFTER 5:00 p.m. Not because of the stock market or
> anything stupid.. but because massive numbers of computer geeks would
> likely set fire to their systems and party like there was no tomorrow out in
> the streets. You thought the Lakers rioting was bad.. wait until you see
> 8000 angry penguins in time square! :D
> --
> original by Colin Winters [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Geek riot ain't gonna happen in L.A. but I wonder if they have riot police in
Silicon Valley?
------------------------------
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