Linux-Misc Digest #615, Volume #18 Thu, 14 Jan 99 17:13:13 EST
Contents:
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers ("Netnerd")
Secuity hole with perl (suidperl) and nosuid mounts on Linux (Brian McCauley)
Re: Remove LILO ("J�rgen Exner")
Re: run levels ("J�rgen Exner")
Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class. (Arthur)
RH 5.2, SMB Installation, SMC Ether EZ 8416 (-)
Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: What does the command who | sort+4 do? (Dan Nguyen)
help: sockets or buffer error? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
How to connect X-terminal? (Lin Yang)
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers ("Netnerd")
Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class. (Paul E Larson)
Re: installing a printer under linux (Dustin Puryear)
Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class. (Eric)
60 % OFF Retail on Quality Watches - Distributor and Sample Order Avaiable
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Earthlink unfriendly to Linux (Alexander Viro)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Netnerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:40:33 -0500
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
David Kastrup wrote in message ...
>"Netnerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> David Kastrup wrote in message ...
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Mading) writes:
>> >
>> >> Netnerd ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> >> :
>> >> : Would you believe the publisher was the Consumer Federation of
America?
>> >>
>> >> Good. You're halfway toward providing a reference. Now tell
>> >> us where to find the write-up of this poll.
>> >
>> >No. He is halfway toward slandering the Consumer Federation of
>> >America, and lending legitimity to a something paid for by an
>> >"unnamed" source and conducted by a wacky organisation with the name
>> >"Consumers for a Sound Economy" which advocate a Wild West economy and
>> >state structure.
>>
>>
>> How could I have slandered the Consumer Federation of America? I did not
>> say they were the publisher. I was asking a question. See the question
>> mark.
>
>Would you believe that the actual sentence mark or grammatical
>construct does not clear you of slandering accusations when the
>context implies that an insinuation is intended?
Actually I thought the Consumer Federation of America would have been quite
proud to have published this poll. It would have represented some good
honest work by them and surely would have improved their image.
------------------------------
From: Brian McCauley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.lang.perl.misc
Subject: Secuity hole with perl (suidperl) and nosuid mounts on Linux
Date: 14 Jan 1999 17:58:15 +0000
The suid script emulation in Perl 5.0004_4 (as found in SuSE Linux 5.3
and doubtless other Linux distributions) fails to take account of the
nosuid mount option on filesystems.
This means that it is trivial for a resourceful user to hide a setuid
perl script on a CD or floppy and then use it to become root. Many
systems are (even by default) configured to allow users mount floppys
and CDs nosuid.
The most obvious fix to Perl for this would be (where available) to
use fstatvfs() (as defined in SUSv2) to determine if the script is on
a filesystem that is mounted with the nosuid option.
Unfortunately fstatvfs() is not implemented in Linux (as of 2.2pre1).
It would not be difficult to add the new system call. Indeed the
existing fstatfs() implementation could simply be modified to
implement fstatvfs() semantics and both syscalls could then point to
the same code.
This vulerability will exist in all Unicies that use a user-space
implementation of suid-scripts and impelment a nosuid mount option in
such a way that it does not modify the values returned by fstat().
It is worth noting that that other suid-aware script-interpreters will
probalby also display this vulnerability on Linux because of the
absense of fstatvfs().
--
\\ ( ) No male bovine | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
. _\\__[oo faeces from | Phones: +44 121 471 3789 (home)
.__/ \\ /\@ /~) /~[ /\/[ | +44 121 627 2173 (voice) 2175 (fax)
. l___\\ /~~) /~~[ / [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37...
# ll l\\ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | http://www.wcl.bham.ac.uk/~bam/
###LL LL\\ (Brian McCauley) |
------------------------------
From: "J�rgen Exner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Remove LILO
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:12:58 -0800
Vialli Wong wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Thank you for all the above replies. :)
>All I wanna do is to re-install the window95 and keep my linux exists.
>Therefore, I will simply format the primary partition and install win95 and
>let the linux remain after listen to many useful help from this newsgroup
>and email from this group.
A Windows installation will overwrite the MBR with it's own boot loader
anyway.
Therefore before starting the Windows installation make sure, that you can
boot into Linux using a boot floppy. TRY IT!!!
After the Windows installation boot using the boot floppy and run /sbin/lilo
to re-install LILO (must be root) and you are all set.
jue
--
J�rgen Exner; microsoft.com, UID: jurgenex
Sorry for this anti-spam inconvenience
------------------------------
From: "J�rgen Exner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: run levels
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:14:27 -0800
Dan Nguyen wrote in message <77k05v$73n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>: so, what are these run levels? where can i find more info?
>
>Look at your /etc/inittab
>
>run level 1: Single User mode
>run level 2: Standard run level for Debian GNU/Linux
>run level 3: Standard run level for every other distro I can think of
>run level 4: ?????
>run level 5: ? on some systems, graphical login in others.
If I'm not mistaken run level 5 is used for "reboot" on Slackware (at least
on older version).
jue
--
J�rgen Exner; microsoft.com, UID: jurgenex
Sorry for this anti-spam inconvenience
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:10:04 GMT
After reading all these hillarious posts and catching my breath again
I�ve decided to put my 2 cents worth in.
Ya�ll remind me of those narrow minded Trekkies who say that only
Star Trek is real Sci-Fi.They think there so cool cause the series is
supposedly intelligent.If I want intelligent Scifi I read a book(not
Star Trek) but most Trekkies probably don�t even know any scifi
authors.It�s just very convenient to sit down and watch all the Series
and call themselves scifi freaks.But it�s their world so let them live
in it.
I�ve pretty well worked with most OS and I�ve found that everone has
it�s pros and cons.It just depends on what I want to do.For me VMS was
the best there is but alas the company changed to UNIX and recently
to NT.
Also remember where Linux came from.If all Linux users are such
intelligent people then why don�t ya�ll get together and write a
better OS,oh yeah I forgot that�s supposedly what Linux is.
As far as I�m concerned I�m going with the flow (MS) basically because
I don�t want to waste my time creating a script to do what I want when
there�s probably a program out there (remember shareware,freeware:no
money for Gates) that will do it.
Thank god (or whoever) that Ford didn�t decide to sell cars only to
people who understand how a motor works.
Chuckston
Sit back,take a deep breath, and relax.
------------------------------
From: Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:46:50 -0800
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Really, it wasn't until 1990 and later
> that PCs have had the actual capacity to comfortably run Linux.
I'm pretty sure AT&T was shipping Unix on their x86
boxes as early as 86/87 (and that might have meant
286's) - I might be wrong there, but I know they
were shipping Unix on the desktop type MC68XXX based
machines they made (actually had made for them
by some company in Colorado I think).
Around the same time frame, I saw an Intel PC (they
only sold to OEM's for relabelling) running Unix,
with DOS running under it in a Virtual Machine -
it might have been a 386 or could have been an
early 486 - the VM I think means 486. It was an odd
version of Unix - not SCO or Xenix, but some small
company that might have done it custom for Intel.
At any rate, it was a fully protected mode OS, and
was networked to another box. I wonder if this
violates my NDA?
Also, weren't SCO and Xenix already around by then?
I'm not sure of the facts (should make no difference
on Usenet), but I'm sure of the dates, because I
quit doing that kind of stuff in late '87, the
same year my daughter was born.
Arthur
------------------------------
From: - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RH 5.2, SMB Installation, SMC Ether EZ 8416
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:52:41 GMT
I am tryiing to install RH5.2 on a Dell Pentium 100 (FWIW it is a Dell
Optiplex GMT 5100). I don't have a CDROM drive, but the PC on the next
desk does. So I rawrite myself the supplementary disk and share the
RH5.2 install CD from the PC next to me. I boot up with the boot disk,
select SMB installation, load the supplementary disk and it asks me to
select the Ethernet card. I tried EVERY DAMN ONE (Other than the
parallel port driver, plip I believe it was) and it couldn't detect my
"SMC Ether EZ 8416". Now, in any other situation i'd go rooting around
for the drivers for that card and compile them into the kernel and life
would be good. The problem is that this is the RH installation program
and I am not sure what to add where. Any advice??? Thanks...
Please respond directly and I will post a summary of what works. See my
sig below to build my address...
P.S. I even tried picking the NE2000 compatible and manually typing the
IO base and IRQ and it didn't make a bit of difference...
--
-Chuck
Domain: boeing.com
UID: richard.c.wolber
Sorry for the e-mail inconvenience.
These are my thoughts, they do not represent the
Boeing Company.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:00:38 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> These folks have every right to use a computer as an appliance if they
> want to, the same way you or I might use a car or toaster or vcr without
> thinking about or having to deal with its inner workings. I know people
> still using Win3.1 and aol, one an english honors student and another
> who owns and manages two businesses, because that works for them and
> they dont have the interest/aptittude to change to linux. I use linux
> everyday and think its a far superior operating system (arent the
> 2.2.0prex kernels nifty). The kind of OS snobbery present in this
> thread/attitude seems to me to be an obstacle in the widespread adoption
> of linux that thank goodness the developers of gnome/kde dont seem to
> share.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > It is sad and true that MS Windows it the operating system of most people...
> > Let us put it this way... It is the operating system of the non elite
> > computer users, AKA Dumb Users... They want nothing but a nice, hassle free
> > way of computing, not caring that all their devices are on the same level and
> > left to duke it out, or that they can't setup the GUI differently... You
> > know, its dumb users who inspire shit like Windows, but as long they exist,
> > which will be forever, Windows will exist...
> >
>
this will sound mean, get over it.....
Linux is for those that know better, Windoze is the big shiney object that
the PC trained Monkeys pull the level for in order to get their pellet,
the only thing my Linux box can't do that my NT box can is a play a game from
Malfador Machinations called Space empires III, and if anyone knows where an
equitable port is, let me know and at that point rest assured that Billy is
no longer welcome in my house.....
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: Dan Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What does the command who | sort+4 do?
Date: 14 Jan 1999 20:39:16 GMT
Rachel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Hi - What does the command who | sort+4 do?
First of all trying using man. ie "man who" to find out what "who"
does. The | takes the output from that and pipes it to the input of
sort. "sort+4" isn't actually a command you forgot a space. Try "man
sort" to find out what it does.
--
Dan Nguyen | There is only one happiness in
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | life, to love and be loved.
http://www.cse.msu.edu/~nguyend7 | -George Sand
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: help: sockets or buffer error?
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:31:18 GMT
We are running Apache on Linux 2.0.36 and are getting strange
errors with the socket connections. Images will load in the
browser half way and stop. After a delay the rest of the image
will load. We get similair problems with telnet where it appears
the whole buffer isn't being sent to the client.
The machine is handling a lot of simultaneous connections (>300),
and we have set the TCP_HTABLE_SIZE, TCP_LHTABLE_SIZE, and TCP_BHTABLE_SIZE
to allow more sockets? (heard that MIGHT help) It seemed to alleiviate the
server load, but the above problem still occurs.
Thanks,
-J.
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: 14 Jan 1999 20:58:48 GMT
On Sat, 09 Jan 1999 18:01:01 -0600, Alan Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Netnerd wrote:
>>
>> David Steuber wrote in message ...
>> >
>> >The only fact we have is that someone posted that a consumer poll said
>> >that 81% of consumers thought that Microsoft was good for the market,
>> >or something. That poster neglected to site the specific poll in
>> >question, so we don't even know if such a poll took place.
>>
>> Would you believe the publisher was the Consumer Federation of America?
>
>No, but I would believe Citizens for a Sound Economy (whoever they are)
>http://www.cse.org/cse/nr-telecom990107csef.htm
>
>CFA says MS overcharged consumers and should be fined $10 billion
>http://cbs.marketwatch.com/archive/19990108/news/current/msft.htx?source=blq/yhoo&dist=yhoo
Would we get our money back? :-)
>--
>"I don't believe in anti-anything. A man has to have a
>program; you have to be *for* something, otherwise you
>will never get anywhere." -- Harry S Truman
----
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Lin Yang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: How to connect X-terminal?
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:48:50 GMT
Hello, all
I am a new linux user.=20
Now I have a linux box (using RedHat 5.1) and a HP X-terminal.=20
I want connect the terminal to the box. After read a HOW-TO file
downloaded from www.linux.org. I think it's a file for old version=20
linux.
I cann't find the config files that referred in the file on my box.
Pls. tell me how to config linux box and terminal or where i can find=20
additional information.
Wait for your warm help.
Thanks.
Yang Lin=20
------------------------------
From: "Netnerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:00:07 -0500
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
David Kastrup wrote in message ...
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Mading) writes:
>
>> Netnerd ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> :
>> : Would you believe the publisher was the Consumer Federation of America?
>>
>> Good. You're halfway toward providing a reference. Now tell
>> us where to find the write-up of this poll.
>
>No. He is halfway toward slandering the Consumer Federation of
>America, and lending legitimity to a something paid for by an
>"unnamed" source and conducted by a wacky organisation with the name
>"Consumers for a Sound Economy" which advocate a Wild West economy and
>state structure.
How could I have slandered the Consumer Federation of America? I did not
say they were the publisher. I was asking a question. See the question
mark.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul E Larson)
Subject: Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:16:04 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Here in comp.os.linux.misc, Michael Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>spake unto us, saying:
>
>>And what's the point of disparaging Gates' intelligence? He's
>>obviously a very intelligent man. Like it or not, MS created the
>>"personal computer" market.
>
>I thought Apple created the initial mass public acceptance of personal
>computers with the release of the very successful Apple ][ line?
>
Apple, Atari, Amiga, Sinclair-Timex, and a host of forgotten others all played
a major part in establishing the home market. But, IBM and compatibles
brought/forced a standardization by being accepted by the business community.
If you used a IBM compatible or IBM at work you where/are more likely to buy
the same kind of PC for home use.
>And I thought IBM created the hardware and made the specs available so
>other companies could clone the boxes and create a popular machine?
>
>Windows rode on the coattails of the IBM-compatible PC, not the other
>way around...
>
That is basically right, Microsoft(DOS) was there and priced correctly at the
beginning so they got the jump on things.
Paul
Get rid of the blahs to email me :}
------------------------------
From: Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: installing a printer under linux
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:03:38 -0600
Regarding not being able to use my HP 694c printer under Linux:
"Jeremy L. Buchmann" wrote:
> Dustin,
> AFAIK, 'cat somefile > /dev/lp1' won't work unless you are
> root...because only root has write access to any file (or device). Users
I noted in #1 that I was root.
> must use lpr to print to a printer.
> Post the relevant sections of /etc/printcap and see if anyone can
> troubleshoot it for you.
Not a bad idea. Following is my printcap for my HP 694c, created using
apsfilter:
[---]
ascii|lp1|cdj670-letter-ascii-mono|cdj670 ascii mono:\
:lp=/dev/lp1:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-ascii-mono:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-ascii-mono/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-ascii-mono/acct:\
:if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-cdj670-letter-ascii-mono:\
:mx#0:\
:sh:
#
lp2|cdj670-letter-auto-mono|cdj670 auto mono:\
:lp=/dev/lp1:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-auto-mono:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-auto-mono/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-auto-mono/acct:\
:if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-cdj670-letter-auto-mono:\
:mx#0:\
:sh:
#
lp3|cdj670-letter-ascii-color|cdj670 ascii color:\
:lp=/dev/lp1:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-ascii-color:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-ascii-color/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-ascii-color/acct:\
:if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-cdj670-letter-ascii-color:\
:mx#0:\
:sh:
#
lp|lp4|cdj670-letter-auto-color|cdj670 auto color:\
:lp=/dev/lp1:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-auto-color:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-auto-color/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-letter-auto-color/acct:\
:if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-cdj670-letter-auto-color:\
:mx#0:\
:sh:
#
raw|lp5|cdj670-letter-raw|cdj670 auto raw:\
:lp=/dev/lp1:\
:sd=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-raw:\
:lf=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-raw/log:\
:af=/var/spool/lpd/cdj670-raw/acct:\
:if=/usr/local/apsfilter/filter/aps-cdj670-letter-raw:\
:mx#0:\
:sh:
[---]
BTW, here is some output from trying various methods of printing:
Attempt using lpr:
dpuryear@ka:~# lpr .cshrc
connection to [EMAIL PROTECTED] failed - Connection refused
job 'cfA084ka.pow' transfer to [EMAIL PROTECTED] failed after 1 attempts
Attempt using cat > /dev/lp1:
dpuryear@ka:~# su
Password:
dpuryear@ka:/home/dpuryear# cat .cshrc > /dev/lp1
Now, when I use cat the printer will feed in some paper and then fail.
This is the part that confuses me. BTW, the printer DOES work under
Windows so I know it is properly connected. Any help would be _greatly_
appreciated.
Regards, Dustin
--
Dustin Puryear * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * ICQ 6644253
Help Crack Government Encryption: http://www.distributed.net
"Keyboard? How quaint!" - Scotty
------------------------------
From: Eric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:29:53 -0700
>
>
> I need to jump in here and stomp on this analogy. It is quite
> interesting that people use this one over and OVER and O V E R in OS
> wars, thinking that it apologizes for something or other. What if you
> look at it this way: The Beta standard was controlled and licensed by
> Sony. They had exclusive rights to charge companies for making the
> devices and such whereas VHS was more of a communal standard which was
> set by several other companies (most importantly, Panasonic).
>
> So, if the great "VHS vs. Beta" analogy is suppost to be analogous to
> anything in our OS world of today, I'd wager that:
>
> Sony => Microsoft [ Beta => Windows ]
> Others => Open Source [ VHS => Linux/BSD ]
>
I have to disagree with your analogy. I think the Beta standard would be
more akin to Apple/Mac. In that they had a far superior technology (in
relation to what was available at the time) and refused to license it to
other manufacturers. For years and years, if you wanted Mac hardware you
went one place. IBM licensed PC technology to anyone, this resulted in the
"clone", drove down prices, and consequently increased market share. Mac
did not start encouraging/licensing other manufacturers until the early-min
90's, by then however it was too late and they had lost to much market
share.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: 60 % OFF Retail on Quality Watches - Distributor and Sample Order Avaiable
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:47:33 PST
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We are a member of NAWCC
See more detail on http://www.unidin.pyar.com
Sincerely yours,
Wayne
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alexander Viro)
Subject: Re: Earthlink unfriendly to Linux
Date: 14 Jan 1999 16:54:42 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Larry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>(b) tried to do something affecting said net,
>
>No, try reading the guys post again, he was trying to get his mail.
Yes. If it results in port scanning it affects said net.
>>(c) didn't understand what you were doing and what effect it might give,
>
>Damned few newbies understand sendmail. In fact a hell of a lot of 'old
>timers' don't understand sendmail.
It doesn't sound like sendmail for me, but as for sendmail: ever
heard 'mail loop'? If you are trying to go beyond pre-canned sendmail.cf
you should bloody better *know* what you are doing. Not that you need to
know the whole things, but you'ld bloody better have at least a shade of
idea WTF you are changing. Been there, seen that, helped to clean the
mess. More than once. Again, his description doesn't sound like sendmail
for me.
>>(d) didn't figure out what is considered OK *prior to* experimenting,
>
>Should he have called up earthlink and asked them if it was OK to get his
>mail?
Stop this Clintonesque, please.
>Should he read the complete sendmail manual and the procmail manual before
>attempting to get his mail. Or should he go to college and get a degree
>first?
Oh, fsck! OK, once again. Slowly. If you are configuring your system
either ask the assistance from somebody who knows what to do, or learn before
playing, or find an isolated playground for your expeirments. WTF is that
hard about this idea?
>>BUT. You felt possible to learn *not* on the local net.
>
>Yeah go out and spend $5000,00 on a local network before you learn to use
>the mail apps in linux.
>That'll sure help draw in the new users to Linux.
WHAT???? Not to mention finding somebody in your local area and using SLIP or
PPP ($0. ZERO), 386SX-16 with 6Mb RAM and 80Mb disk bloody doesn't cost
$5000. Oh, and LapLink cable costs $10 in WalMart. The whole f*cking thing
is well below $100. If you know somebody who could be bilked^W^W spend $5000 on it -
tell me. I will even pay the delivery. What about sharing the rest 50/50?
>>It's quite easy to
>>wreak a havoc on the net experimenting with it. *Without* any evil intents.
>
>Horse shit! He was trying to get the mail.
Right. And (from what he told) managed to imitate port scanning.
>>Normally users who don't have enough knowledge don't have enough privileges
>>or tools. You have privileges (root, right?) and have tools (RH is not Windows,
>>power *is* there). You demonstrated that you don't know how to use them and
>>are ready to train on your neighbors.
>
>The new requirements for using Linux to get the mail:
>Buy a local network setup, get a degree in sendmail and procmail and
>whatever you intend to read your mail with, Experiment on your shiny new
>local network first before you ever get an ISP account. Then call them up
>and ask them if it's ok to try and get the mail.
Shiny? New? BTW, some understanding of procmail *is* needed if you
are going to use it. Ever seen a flood on maillist when some subscriber
decided to try procmail? That is, ever got ~1000 mails during a night?
>>ISP is responsible for everything coming
>>from their net. That's it. If you are ready to use tools just because you
>>got them - either switch to harmless ones (in all senses) or do it in the
>>isolated playground. If you don't realize it ISP *must* make sure that
>>playground will be isolated. Preferably by driving the point to you,
>>disconnecting you if it fails. There is no way around it.
>>
>>If one is learning to drive he'ld better do it not on the highway and far
>>from schools. People around are unlikely to be amused he'll rear-end into
>>the wall, fail to understand explanations re: why it's bad and just keep
>>saying 'I just drove this car, I'm only learning'. Somehow I doubt that
>>their tone will be polite. Comments along the lines 'Stick to the bike, then'
>>are also pretty probable. It wouldn't mean that they have anything against
>>cars, BTW.
>
>The problem here is more along the lines of:
>I was trying to get gas in the car and when I switched on the gas pump a
>short in it caused the pump to explode. I was accused of crossing the wires
>that caused the short by sticking the nozzle in the tank.
>
>>Net result: don't do things you don't understand if they can affect the rest
>>of the net.
>
>If you don't understand how the mail system works, don't try to get mail.
YES. At least don't try to send a contents of CD (600M) cut in 20Kb
pieces (don't laugh, it happened).
>If you don't understand how Netscape does what it does don't surf the web.
Nah. If you don't know the thing about HTML don't try to set homepages.
And don't even dare to think of storing any kind of information submitted by
visitors unless you *know* what you are doing. Ever seen a site where CC numbers
were stored in a file that could be read from the outside? Owner thought that
file can be accessed only if there is a link somewhere. Customers were *not*
amused. Could you spell 'group action lawsuit'?
>If you don't understand how ftp works, don't download a file.
Nah. Don't try to configure anon-ftp. BTW, FTP is not a rocket science.
>If you don't understand how a modem works don't call up an ISP.
Gee... Ever seen somebody with misconfigured ISDN? Especially when
they look at the bill. Yeah, several thousands of short connections cost a
lot. No, f*cking telcos don't consider the lack of knowledge a valid excuse.
Yes, the *are* able to collect.
While we are at it: don't let your kids to play with the phone unless
your are sure that they know the difference between local and long-distance.
Their, erm, lack of knowledge may give you some nasty surprises. Oh, and warn
'em about (900) numbers.
--
"You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!"
"Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert.
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