Linux-Misc Digest #645, Volume #19 Sun, 28 Mar 99 22:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: Using Linux instead of NT Server in home environment.... ("Systemic")
Re: Using Linux instead of NT Server in home environment.... (David Kirkpatrick)
$2,499 14.1"TFT DVD-ROM 333MHz PII Sony Vaio Laptop ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Using Linux instead of NT Server in home environment.... (jedi)
Re: Using Linux instead of NT Server in home environment.... (jedi)
Re: Using Linux instead of NT Server in home environment.... (Johan Kullstam)
Problems installing Red Hat 5.2 (Jorge)
Practical Linux Programs (root)
Re: $2,499 14.1"TFT DVD-ROM 333MHz PII Sony Vaio Laptop (brian moore)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Systemic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc,microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup,micorosft.public.outlook
Subject: Re: Using Linux instead of NT Server in home environment....
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:42:35 -0800
Reply-To: "Systemic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Alexander I. Butenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:#H7f6dVe#GA.267@cppssbbsa03...
> Well,, I'd beter think that there is a Server for the client, not
> vice-versa. And one more - the question was about the OS for the home.
MOst
> hom eusers can't even properly configure Win98, so the most correct answer
> about the Server was not linux but WIndows NT. Anyway I do not wasn to
> continue this flame as most of this group members seem to gain nothing
from
> it.
Actually, I would probably recommend to the "average" home user to just use
a Windoze 95/98 peer-to-peer setup. Realistically, they're not going to
understand security issues, much less NT or a *nix of any kind. Hell, most
Windoze users that are clients of mine still think the're running
Windoze[insert current year here] and think the Internet is owned by AOL.
Now, the guy who originally posted this message seemed quite literate and
would probably be able to handle NT or Linux. His original post
specifically asked that a flame war like this one not be started. He stated
that NT was not right for his immediate need; his question was how well
LINUX handled his laundry list of requirements. In fact, to paraphrase the
last bit of that message:
=======snip=================================================================
========================
"What are your experiences when taking this approach? Does one have to
sacrifice many windas niceties in order to take advantage of Linux? &
please, no barking about how well Linux handles these services - I
know - I just want to know how well it compares to NT on the
usability/feature-wise scale."
=======snip=================================================================
========================
I haven't really heard anyone answer any of this gentleman's questions yet.
I don't have a really great answer so I'll defer on this. I just wanted to
point out that we seem to have lost the point and we're all (Linux groups
and NT groups) looking like over-zealous freaks who can't even answer
relatively straight forward questions.
My only comment would be that Linux will handle everything that NT will
handle. If you are using Outlook 98 on a Windoze 98 client, you can use
sendmail or some equivelent on the Linux server in place of Exchange. If
you really want to know how well everything integrates, think about the
Internet. At least 70% of all client machines that connect somehow to the
Internet are connecting and using services backboned by some Unix variant.
The only thing Linux requires is that you actually know something about all
of the hardware on your system. Not just, "I've got an STB video-card".
You have to know specifics. That may be a stretch for your average
PC-Magazine PHD.
I'll just stop now before I continue into a tirade about NT administrators,
who I try to deal with peacefully, on a day-to-day basis.
Systemic
------------------------------
From: David Kirkpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc,microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup,micorosft.public.outlook
Subject: Re: Using Linux instead of NT Server in home environment....
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:08:54 +0100
Stuart Summerville wrote:
>
> Hi,
for minimal
> cost. I see Linux as the way to go, on both counts.
>
Here there are 3 systems off a Linux server. Two NT, 98 Notebook and
Linux. All connected through ip-masquerading to the internet via ISP
which issues a dynamic IP. Something NT cannot do although there may be
some third party SW. A router type box can also do the same but there a
few bucks also - the one I know of runs $300.
> My biggest concern is the up/cross-grade path that one has to take in
> doing so. Hosting of email clients, provision of inet access, & file
> serving are all relatively cool (ie. Linux ain't missing out on too
> much compared to NT). What about fax servers, groupware tools (ie.
> sharing contacts, to-do lists, calendards, etc...), client/server
> virus suites & other server-type services that might not be as
> seamless in with a Linux box?
>
For email who will be supplying you net access? If its a single isp
with several accounts then they can exist on any box internal to your
network.
For the calendars/to-do lists linux does not run MS software but has
such items - for example embedded in KDE desktop environment - free.
Fax can be setup off the linux box and printing etc for the internal
net.
> Even file access ain't all that straight forward when served from a
> non-windas box. The differences in the way windas and Unix deal with
> file permissions can cause problems with some windas apps (ok some DOS
> ones, but they do work with NT server).
Have not run across any permissions problems with Samba on Linux and
sharing disks both ways. The linux disks are mountable at NT shares the
same way you map a drive NT to NT and behaves the same way in IE - fully
clickable. Going the other way you can mount (via Samba) NT drives as
local to Linux.
> As mentioned above, I'm also looking to Unix to avoid cost. Given that
> Linux comes bundled with most essential services out of the box is a
> great start. Having to then go out & buy Exchange Server, on top of NT
> Server would be a nightmare, & thats not including hardware
> requirements.
>
> What are your experiences when taking this approach? Does one have to
> sacrifice many windas niceties in order to take advantage of Linux? &
> please, no barking about how well Linux handles these services - I
> know - I just want to know how well it compares to NT on the
> usability/feature-wise scale.
It takes a bit of getting used to administering a linux system but in
the end its as easy as NT and probably allows more access to tweakable's
than NT. Administration tools are fairly GUI or GUI like and at the
current state are very good. It takes some getting used to and most
people compare NT to Linux coming from an NT background and expecting to
just click away and get a Linux system fully operational. NT is more
consistent in its tools and better in that sense but there is a learning
curve with Linux just as there is with NT.
After getting used to the available window managers I use KDE with its
few flaws and like it better that NT but it took a while to get used to
it.
I still use the NT machines as I used them before with the same apps
but will not be upgrading them. They along with NT will eventually be
upgraded out of existence. The last straw was having to by 98 upgrade
then 98 full install. The compatibility of SW and HW for future MS os's
is not attractive.
So for the workstations side it really depends on what you need out of
a spreadsheet. What you need more that the word processors that are
available on Linux.
For the server side at least for me after running both there is no
contest as NT could not do what Linux can do regardless of the cost.
d
PS Its not necessary to cross post in the Linux groups.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts,
>
> Stu.
> ----------------------------------------------
> Stuart Summerville
> Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ----------------------------------------------
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,comp.os.linux,linux.help
Subject: $2,499 14.1"TFT DVD-ROM 333MHz PII Sony Vaio Laptop
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:59:50 GMT
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http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/products/pc/notebook/pcgf180.html
$3,299.99 Sony Vaio PCG-F190
http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/products/pc/notebook/pcgf190.html
366 MHz Intel� Pentium� II Processor (Sony Vaio PCG-F190)
333 MHz Intel� Pentium� II Processor (Sony Vaio PCG-F180)
256 KB Integrated On-Die Level 2
14.1" XGA Active Matrix LCD (1024 x 768)
2x max. fixed DVD-ROM drive with DVD movie playback capability
MPEG1 and MPEG2 Digital Video Supports Full Screen Playback
NeoMagic MagicMedia 256AV with 2.5 MB Video RAM and 128 bit Accelerator Direct
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64 MB SDRAM, expandable to 192 MB
6.4 GB Hard Drive (Sony Vaio PCG-F190)
4.3 GB Hard Drive (Sony Vaio PCG-F180)
Size (W X H X D)
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Removable 1.44 MB, 3.5" Internal Operation Floppy Disk Drive (Floppy disk
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V.90 Modem
Digital Touch Pad
PCI Bus Architecture
Built-in Stereo Speakers
Built-in Microphone
Lithium-Ion Battery
3.5 hours (with one battery)
7 hours (with optional second battery)
Two PCMCIA Type 2 Cards or one Type 3 Card
Card Bus Support
Supports 4 Mbps, 1.1 Mbps and 115 kbps IrDA Standard
Serial Port
Printer Port
VGA Monitor Port
PS/2� Keyboard/Mouse Port
USB (x1) Port
RJ-11 Phone Jack
i.LINK (IEEE-1394) S200 Interface
Mic-In
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Power Requirements
65 Watts Maximum (19.5V DC / AC100-240V)
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Hardware: One Year
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PRE-INSTALLED SOFTWARE
Operating System
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Software Applications
Adobe Acrobat� Reader
Adobe PhotoDeluxe� Business Edition
Adobe Premier� LE
Intuit� Quicken� Basic 99
Mediamatic DVD Express
Microsoft� Money 99
Microsoft� Outlook� 98
Microsoft� Works
Sony DVgate Still
Sony DVgate Motion
Sony Digital Media Park
Symantec WinFax� Basic Edition
Sony PictureGear
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Microsoft� Internet Explorer for Windows� 98
Netscape� Communicator�
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///
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jedi)
Crossposted-To:
microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc,microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup,micorosft.public.outlook
Subject: Re: Using Linux instead of NT Server in home environment....
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:46:04 -0800
On Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:01:22 -0600, Ovidiu Popa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Johan, allow me to share a recent experience. I met some times ago a
>couple of genial (and I mean it) Linux programmers. Ones of the very
>few having "access" to Linus, having major contributions to Slack
>kernel, etc...
>
>Can you figure out what pissed me off about these guys? They turned
>out to be extremely appreciated programmers, one working (say 9 to 6)
>for a major software company, the other one being self-employed, both
>raising big bucks, as Windows C/S programmers. And they spend
>afternoons and nights aggressively bitching and hating NT in the
>usenet world, (and also on their web sites). Now, they do this on
>their time and dime, but don't ask me to appreciate their moral
>profiles. I might look old fashioned, but I can't spit the place which
>provides my beers, bread and butter.
>
>I asked them why are they not starting to write a decent GUI, some
>more friendly administration tools, reliable GUI development tools,
>able to allow the entry on the desktop and SOHO markets (I am not
>going to deny the Linux excellent performances, as server). Guess what
>answer I got... "Yuk man, it's no fun doing that".
>
>My personal opinion: soon, they will built a better Linux TCP/IP stack
>:-) Unfortunately, these genial programmers (and unfortunately Linux)
It is better that those that have the itch to scratch
or the interest in that area do the programming. Linux
works as well as it does because of the user programmer,
not the 'knight in shining armour' doing grunt coding for
someone else.
>will stay away from the desktop and SOHO markets, until some major
>company will get involved. BUT can a major software company afford to
>stay in the open source initiative mainstream, as far as they are
>supposed to make profits? Only time will tell...
>
>Ovidiu Popa
>MS-MVP (DTS)
>
>Johan Kullstam wrote in message ...
>>"Alexander I. Butenko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>>> ANyway I greatly doubt that Linux will be easier to use than NT
>>> Server. I'm sure that NT Server will be a ideal use for a small
>home
>>> network, becaus eit's very easy to configure comparable to Linux
>and
>>> supports most network clients better.
>>
>>since we're talking a server OS, don't we want to support network
>>*servers* better and not clients? who cares if netscape looks better
>>on NT than linux. what we really want to know is who can dole out
>>webpages better, both faster and more reliably.
>>
>>and once we are talking service, NT is going to lose hard.
>>
>>apache runs better on linux than NT. apache blows MS's offering
>>(what's it called, IIS?) away in speed, price and marketshare. samba
>>runs better on linux than NT can do it's own filesharing protocol.
>>NFS is better in linux than on NT. ftp servers (ftpd) are easier and
>>work better in linux than NT. MTAs like qmail blow the crap out of
>>exchange. the list just goes on and on.
>>
>>a final note, what about uptimes? linux is *much* more robust than
>NT
>>(unless you consider BSOD to be a debug mode and not downtime).
>>
>>--
>> J o h a n K u l l s t a m
>> [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Don't Fear the Penguin!
>
--
"I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die |||
while you discuss this a invasion in committe." / | \
In search of sane PPP docs? Try http://penguin.lvcm.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jedi)
Crossposted-To:
microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc,microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup,micorosft.public.outlook
Subject: Re: Using Linux instead of NT Server in home environment....
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:44:15 -0800
On Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:13:52 +0300, Alexander I. Butenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Well,, I'd beter think that there is a Server for the client, not
>vice-versa. And one more - the question was about the OS for the home. MOst
>hom eusers can't even properly configure Win98, so the most correct answer
>about the Server was not linux but WIndows NT. Anyway I do not wasn to
In which case, they are going to be wide open the moment the
put that bugger on the net. Subsequently securing it will be
no less difficult than dealing with ip-chains or samba.
>continue this flame as most of this group members seem to gain nothing from
>it.
[deletia]
--
"I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die |||
while you discuss this a invasion in committe." / | \
In search of sane PPP docs? Try http://penguin.lvcm.com
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc,microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup,micorosft.public.outlook
Subject: Re: Using Linux instead of NT Server in home environment....
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 28 Mar 1999 17:34:02 -0500
"Alexander I. Butenko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Well,, I'd beter think that there is a Server for the client, not
> vice-versa.
*boggle* what exactly are you trying to say? this sentence doesn't
make any sense to me.
> And one more - the question was about the OS for the home. MOst
> hom eusers can't even properly configure Win98, so the most correct answer
> about the Server was not linux but WIndows NT.
but if you can't do win98, wtf are you doing with nt server? windows
nt is kind of like windows 98. they are different enought that once
you get under the skin lot of stuff is different so that a competent
win98 user may get lost. they are alike enough that someone who can't
do win98 won't be able do windows nt.
so they can't configure win98 properly. i readily admit, *i* can't
configure win98 (more truthfully, i can't abide by it but i digress).
i, however, *can* do linux!
> Anyway I do not wasn to continue this flame as most of this group
> members seem to gain nothing from it.
perhaps that is because they cannot/will not change their minds no
matter what.
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jorge )
Subject: Problems installing Red Hat 5.2
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:16:35 -0300
Hi,
These days I have been trying to install Red Hat 5.2 in my house but I
couldn't even load the installation program. When I boot my computer from
the Linux CD I see a lot of messages on the screen and then the computer
hangs up. The last one says this:
ide: i82371 PIIX (Triton) on PCI bus 0 function 57
ide0: BM-DMA at 0xf000 - 0xf007
ide1: BM-DMA at 0xf008 - 0xf00f
I have a Pentium MMX 200 with an Intel Triton TX motherboard, a 3.2 Gb
Caviar HD as primary master and an Acer 32x CD-ROM as secondary master.
I guess the problem must be related to hardware. If someone has an idea of
what happens I would be really greteful.
Thanks
Jorge Merlino
------------------------------
From: root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Practical Linux Programs
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 02:05:31 GMT
Ok, i'm using linux but now i need some programs like an invoice program
to generate invoices and print them for my business. Any ideas??
I have Star (runs very slow) but do not find anything there. Dan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,comp.os.linux,linux.help
Subject: Re: $2,499 14.1"TFT DVD-ROM 333MHz PII Sony Vaio Laptop
Date: 29 Mar 1999 02:36:02 GMT
On Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:59:50 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> WOW!!! Check out the prices and specs on these new Sony Vaio laptops!
Wow, you must be losing a fortune on them, considering you're posting
this from a terminal at the library. Can't afford your own?
> PRE-INSTALLED SOFTWARE
> Operating System
> Microsoft� Windows� 98
Ick: and I'd actually pay more if that weren't the case.
> Software Applications
<buncha other Windows crap>
>
> Online Center
> Microsoft� Internet Explorer for Windows� 98
It's not a browser, it's an "Online Center"!
Get a clue and stop spamming.
--
Brian Moore | "The Zen nature of a spammer resembles
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | a cockroach, except that the cockroach
Usenet Vandal | is higher up on the evolutionary chain."
Netscum, Bane of Elves. Peter Olson, Delphi Postmaster
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
