Linux-Misc Digest #15, Volume #20 Sun, 2 May 99 00:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: WORDS OF WISDOM!! Upgrading RedHat 5.1 to 2.2.X Kernel ($)
Re: Listing I/O and IRQs? (Marc D. Bumble)
Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really) (Christopher B. Browne)
Re: Computer virus threat to Linux? (Alan Curry)
Re: X Broken - Error 111 (Benoit Goudreault-Emond)
Re: seti@home graphical client (David E. Fox)
Re: CTRL-S (Ewan Dunbar)
Re: The Best Linux distribution? (was Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux) (Mikhail Kruk)
Re: SUID games? What is RedHat doing? (Dan Nguyen)
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522) (Christopher
B. Browne)
generic debugging? (Walter Strong)
Re: Dual Boot (Ewan Dunbar)
Re: SB Live! Value & MP3 (Jens Sorensen)
Re: Unable to login as root (Dan Nguyen)
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522) (Ewan Dunbar)
Re: Computer virus threat to Linux? (Carl Fink)
Re: LINUX and DOS, network file shareing? ("David L. Courtney")
Re: Microsoft is the Communist!!! ("Martin Ozolins")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ($)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: WORDS OF WISDOM!! Upgrading RedHat 5.1 to 2.2.X Kernel
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 02:46:39 GMT
I am a newbie who had to install 5.0 ( I also have 5.2 but it has the
2.0.36 kernel with the aic7xxx bug and it will not install).
I want to upgrade to 5.2 and use the newest possible kernel. What is
my general upgrade ath? Do the kernel first? if I then upgrade the 5.0
install with the 5.2 CD-ROM, will I not then revert to the buggy
2.0.36 kernel?
TIA,
$teve
On 28 Apr 1999 11:30:05 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hans
Wolters) wrote:
>John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> found a keyboard
> and wrote the .........
>
>...............
>
>>What exactly is the purported problem with updating RH5.1 to
>>kernel 2.2.x? I moved this machine running RH5.1 from
>>kernel 2.0.34 to kernel 2.2.1 a couple months ago already
>>and besides a couple trivial issues with printers and serial
>>ports and xosview not working until I updated that, it's
>>been rock-solid stable and fine as far as I can tell.
>
>You're not the only one. I have updated 5.1 to the 2.2.5 kernel. As long as
>your read the Changes file (included with the new kernel) it should work. I
>had to update about 5 packages. The only problem I had was that Midnight
>Commander didn't run anymore. This can be solved by getting the newest
>source from www.gnome.org and compile it with the --without-gnome option.
>
>The serial problems can be fixed mnaking new links to the ttyS devices i.e:
>
>cd /dev
>rm mouse
>ln -s /dev/ttySX mouse
>
>where X is your port number.
>
>2.2.5 runs stable ass a rock.
>
>Regards Hans
>
>--
> Java Search Engine Front End
> http://home.gelrevision.nl/~h.wolter/
> Linux Links/CMI8330 Soundpro HOWTO
>http://home.gelrevision.nl/~h.wolter/linux.htm
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Listing I/O and IRQs?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marc D. Bumble)
Date: 29 Apr 1999 20:20:32 -0400
Its not as eloquent as the other replies you received, but you can often
sift this info from the output of 'dmesg' on various unicies.
marc
>>>>> "Adam" == Adam Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Adam> cat /proc/ioports cat /proc/interrupts
Adam> --AM
Adam> On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Stuart Baird wrote:
>> What is the command that will allow me to list the I/O
>> addresses and IRQs currently used by the various cards in my
>> RedHat Linux 5.2 system?
>>
>> Stuart Baird
>>
>>
>>
--
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com/ The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
=========== Over 72,000 Groups, Plus Dedicated Binaries Servers ==========
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne)
Crossposted-To:
talk.politics.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: The GNU Fragrance of Sharing vs. the Stench of Greed (was: GNU reeks of
Communism (really)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 02:04:18 GMT
On Sat, 1 May 1999 22:12:43 GMT, Mark S. Bilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
>In article <7g54ec$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John S. Dyson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>...
>>A given idealogy might just not be practical. Some idealogies might
>>be practical in the short term or regressive (like GPL),
>
>To a true-believer Capitalist, cooperation and sharing are
>considered "regressive". Whereas using sexy ads to induce
>people to buy tobacco, which kills one-third of them
>(taking 25 years off their life) is considered "good
>business", and perfectly alright.
To a "true-believer Capitalist" of the Mark S. Bilk variety, it must
be quite acceptable to sell one's own children into slavery.
>This is basically because in Capitalism, it is OK to harm
>other people in order to benefit oneself (this is a good
>definition of "evil") as long as one can induce the victim
>to "voluntarily" bite the hook.
No, this is not an example of the Principles of Absolute Capitalism;
this is an example of the Principles of Insanely Blind Greed.
Please keep the difference clear.
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Computer virus threat to Linux?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alan Curry)
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 02:05:18 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Tom Christiansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>In nvi, this has been "fixed" in that it you try to set modelines, it says
>
> set: the modeline option may never be turned on.
>
>But in vim, it appears to work, for potentially unpleasant values of
>work. :-)
I find nothing unpleasant about it. It only accepts the "set" command. It's
not like you could make it send mail or anything.
--
Alan Curry |Declaration of | _../\. ./\.._ ____. ____.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]|bigotries (should| [ | | ] / _> / _>
==============+save some time): | \__/ \__/ \___: \___:
Linux,vim,trn,GPL,zsh,qmail,^H | "Screw you guys, I'm going home" -- Cartman
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Benoit Goudreault-Emond)
Subject: Re: X Broken - Error 111
Date: 2 May 1999 02:52:07 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, rob wrote:
> Wanting to learn CORBA, I got Mico. It wouldn't
> compile so I downloaded, compiled, and installed
> the latest egcs. Mico then compiled and installed
> cleanly. Life was good. Then I wanted to get my
> sound card working. I recompiled the kernel, and
> the sound does work now. But XFree86 will not
> start. It simply turns the screen black. X _does_ work
> if I load the old kernel. I'll paste the errors I get
> below. (Error 111 apparently means very little,
> but I don't see any other errors.)
>
> Please tell me I don't have to reinstall X. I just had
> to do that a few weeks ago to get my TNT card
> working and it was a pain.
Depending on the kernel version, this may or may not be your problem, but it
looks like it is. Kernel versions 2.0.x (below .36 or .37, I think--not
sure) don't work when compiled with egcs because they rely on a bug in gcc
2.7.2. If you want to properly compile such a kernel, use gcc 2.7.2.
Another alternative is to go to the 2.2.x: those compile cleanly with both C
compilers.
X not working is a symptom of this reliance on the bug in gcc. Don't mess
with your X server--it's fine, since it works with the old kernel. Just
install gcc (you can still keep egcs for its g++--in fact, that's how Debian
does it) or 2.2.x kernel, recompile, and enjoy. :{)
--
Benoit Goudreault-Emond
CoFounder, KMS Group ; Student, B. Comp. Eng, Concordia University
``Being too close to a fireball can worry a man --- to death.''
-- Zeb Carter in "The Number of the Beast" by Robert A. Heinlein
Note: the "From:" address is not correct to protect myself against spam.
My actual e-mail address is: ``bgoudem AT axess DOT com''
------------------------------
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David E. Fox)
Subject: Re: seti@home graphical client
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Date: 02 May 1999 01:53:35 GMT
In article <oap4g7.qsk.ln@snowwhite>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Of course, this is all a moot point to those of us with Alphas :-(. All
> that processing power waiting to be used and they don't seem to want it.
Right you are :(. I also wonder why some of these "let's borrow your
computer" type of global computing engines are released without
any source code. This of course precludes you running it on a
more powerful system, or tuning it yourself to make it run
faster (like compiling it with -O3 -mcpu=pentium). I've seen
this before with mersenne prime generators: they have clients for
Windows and Linux and some other systems - but no source code is
to be found. Perhaps they're Windows people that aren't sufficiently
clued in to know that source is something good instead of something that
should be kept secret. Heck, even some people I know on Windows have
compilers on their systems :).
Of course, data integrity is an issue here that's important, and it
might be not a good thing to get results that are wrong because some-
one miscompiled or otherwise changed the output of the program (which
of course might be justification for not releasing source).
And for those actually using setiathome: I've been running 0.42 for
a few weeks now, and I've noticed a slow memory leak in it: the
process used to take approximately 13 megs or so according to the
SIZE field in 'ps' and now it is up to 19-20 megs now, although it
does release a significant amount of its memory when sleeping, when
it can't connect to the server, etc.) I noticed that a newer version
of it was available - perhaps I should get it...
> Ho Hum,
--
========================================================================
David E. Fox Tax Thanks for letting me
[EMAIL PROTECTED] the change magnetic patterns
[EMAIL PROTECTED] churches on your hard disk.
=======================================================================
------------------------------
From: Ewan Dunbar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CTRL-S
Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:15:42 -0400
On Sat, 01 May 1999, William Wueppelmann wrote:
>In our last episode (30 Apr 1999 15:36:53 +0100),
>the artist formerly known as Jonas said:
>>Stu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>>> I've noticed that within a virtual console CTRL-S disables the keyboard.
>>> I am sure this is not a bug, so what is its purpose. I can only think
>>> that it could be to lock the console for whilst away from the keyboard,
>>> but if so how do you unlock it ?
>>
>>I'm not sure exactly what the purpose of it is, but whilst messing
>>around with it, I found that pressing CTRL-Q sends whatever you typed
>>after CTRL-S to the console. Pressing CTRL-C after CTRL-S seems to
>>cancel the CTRL-S situation and returns you to your normal prompt.
>>
>>Anybody know what this is for? Is it just for some sort of keyboard
>>capture or delayed command entry?
>
>It suspends and resumes flow to the terminal. IIRC, whatever you type gets
>put in a queue, and the terminal reads from the queue. When you suspend
>flow, the terminal stops reading from the queue, but the server can still
>keep filling the queue up. When you resume flow, the terminal continues to
>read.
>
>I assume that it was probably done originally so that you could pause a
>free scrolling display so you could read it a page at a time. Sort of a
>hardware implementation of more(1). Presumably, it's outlived its
>usefulness, since the speed at which data is output or transmitted is far
>to great to read without some kind of software pager. But I seem to
>remember reading text over 300 and 1200 baud modem connections and using
>the same sort of pause feature, where you'd let a screenful of data appear
>on your screen (1200 baud is slow enough that it takes a few seconds to
>fill an entire screen), then turn the flow off, read what was there, turn
>the flow back on, and then let it continue with the next screenful. Or, if
>you were just skimming the text, at 1200 baud you could basically let it
>free scroll.
I'm not sure what this is useful for, but the Scroll Lock key does the same
thing.
--
================================================
Ewan Dunbar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
================================================
Visit Preston Manning: Action Hero at
http://earl.thedunbars.com/pmah/index.html
================================================
------------------------------
From: Mikhail Kruk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: The Best Linux distribution? (was Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux)
Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:16:27 -0400
Bill Vermillion wrote:
>
> In article <7fjq2b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> david parsons <o r c @ p e l l . p o r t l a n d . o r . u s> wrote:
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >Tom Christiansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >>: Oh, yeah, those are on a linux box. Not surprising there's no
> >>: manpage for cua, because the cua devices don't exist on Linux.
>
> >>Let's look into this...
>
> >> bsd% man 4 tty | wc -c
> >> 16514
>
> >> linux% man 4 tty | wc -c
> >> 1674
>
> >>Can you say "order of magnitude"? I thought so. :-)
> >>I rest my case.
>
> > And your case is? That the BSD development teams need an
> > editor to clean up the manpages? Really, you could have just
> > said it outright instead of hiding it behind a half-hearted
> > linux complement.
>
> Take a look at those man pages. There isn't much that could be
> taken out of the BSD pages if you want anything useable. I felt
> the implication was that the Linux was very undocumented.
>
> The docs look identical to my printed 4.4BSD manuals from the
> Usenix/OReilly work.
can't agree more
Linux never stops surprising me with its man pages
------------------------------
From: Dan Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.security.unix
Subject: Re: SUID games? What is RedHat doing?
Date: 2 May 1999 03:17:22 GMT
In comp.os.linux.misc Bill Unruh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: On a new install of Redhat 5,2 (also there in 5.1) I get the following
: What the hell is RedHat doing shipping games which are suid root? This
: makes no sense at all!
Do these game run through the console? If they do, then they need to
run as root. If they are for X, they don't need to run as root.
hope that helps.
--
Dan Nguyen | It is with true love as it is with ghosts;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | everyone talks of it, but few have seen it.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -La Rochefocauld, Maxims
25 2F 99 19 6C C9 19 D6 1B 9F F1 E0 E9 10 4C 16
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 03:24:47 GMT
On Sun, 02 May 1999 02:41:03 GMT, Peter Seebach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
>Many companies offer truly atrocious support, yes. That said, a lot of
>"support" means "I can just read the printed documentation, put a CD in a
>drive, and expect something to happen, and if it doesn't, I can call someone
>and ask for help".
>
>RedHat is now offering this; that's their market. I think it's a
>good one to be in.
It looks like they're charging $75/incident, which may feel outrageous
to home consumer, but isn't too bad from a commercial standpoint.
The price obviously has the positive effect of encouraging people to
start by actually looking for documentation/FAQs, rather than
immediately blathering about a problem that they probably had
documented locally already...
... And if you've sat on hold for 20 minutes on a Microsoft 1-900
line, it is probably cheaper :-).
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Walter Strong)
Subject: generic debugging?
Date: 1 May 1999 23:24:54 GMT
Hi,
Just wondering if there is anyway to get debugging info from any
given failed process. For example, say top stops responding for
reasons unknown, it is possible to give the top command in a way
that will have errors recorded somewhere or at least sent to
the terminal?
------------------------------
From: Ewan Dunbar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dual Boot
Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:18:13 -0400
On Sat, 01 May 1999, Siva Vasanthan wrote:
>Hi Can you help.
>
>I bought a new PC and it came with Microsoft OS. Ideally, I want to run
>Microsoft Windows & Linux in the same mechine. I know there is a way
>here you can select the OS when the PC boots up and you can't see the
>Linux partion from MS Windows and vice versa.
>
>Does anyone know hot to setup this partions and Dual Bootup system? Are
>there and utilities in Windows95 to setup the dual bootup. FDISK in
>Win95 won't allow to create two Primary partions in the system.
The easiest way is to pick up a copy of Caldera OpenLinux 2.2. It's so good,
there have been flame wars going on about it for quite a few days now! This, of
course, is because, people have different definitions of good. But, for getting
Linux into the desktop market, we all agree that this thing is gonna work.
We're just not all sure that *that* is a good thing.
A little walkthrough of the installation:
1. Put the CD in your drive. It autoplays, and you can watch a little
AVI movie about it.
2. Click on some things, and you'll be in a licensed version of
Partition Magic. Click a few more times, and you'll have resized your
Windows partition to make room for Linux.
3. Click some more. You'll have rebooted into Linux, and you'll be in a
graphical installer. This is the part where you click some more.
4. Your system is now installing. Caldera now lets you enjoy a game of
Tetris while you wait.
5. Reboot. You'll be in KDE. It's real easy.
Now, was that easy or what?
------------------------------
From: Jens Sorensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SB Live! Value & MP3
Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:25:07 GMT
Alex wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I finally got my SB Live! Value to work using the latest OSS drivers.
> I can play audio cd's just fine, but I get no sound when playing MP3s
> using X11AMP and MPG123.
> Can any one help me here?
> I am using RedHat 5.2. I am not using GNOME yet. I am using Afterstep.
> Thanks
Hi Alex,
you can get the driver SBLIVE driver from
http://developer.soundblaster.com/linux/
-Jens
------------------------------
From: Dan Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Unable to login as root
Date: 2 May 1999 03:27:11 GMT
Mark B. Merritt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: We had a power failure. After the Linux server rebooted, I was unable to
: login as root. I had logged in just before the power failure with no
: problem. I am sure I have not forgotten the password. I can login
: with my user name OK. Does anyone have any idea what has happened
: and how I may restore the password?
Try at the lilo prompt to do 'Linux single' (assumes your need to
type 'Linux' at the prompt). This should bring you to single user
mode. There you should be able to change passwd in /etc/passwd or
/etc/shadow if you run shadowed passwords. If you get a "Please enter
root password for maintaince" or something of that effect (this only
happens on more secure distribution) You will need to use a rescue
disk and then mount the parition with has /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow
One of the easiest way to change passwords is to copy the an ecrypted
one that you know.
--
Dan Nguyen | It is with true love as it is with ghosts;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | everyone talks of it, but few have seen it.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -La Rochefocauld, Maxims
25 2F 99 19 6C C9 19 D6 1B 9F F1 E0 E9 10 4C 16
------------------------------
From: Ewan Dunbar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism (returning to %252522GNU Communism%252522)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:56:14 -0400
On Sat, 01 May 1999, Prins Olivier wrote:
>Peter Seebach wrote:
>
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> Prins Olivier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >Peter Seebach wrote:
>> >> You don't for Windows, either. Now, you'll never get *as much* performance,
>> >> but often, that's okay.
>>
>> >You think that's okay??
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> >linux running on the same machine, or compare playing quake 1 on a p166
>> >under linux
>> >or under windows, on the first it's playable in a nice resolution on the
>> >later it's
>> >not....
>>
>> True enough, unless you have a good graphics card - which probably ran GLQuake
>> on Windows a year or two before it ran it on Linux. :)
>>
>> That said, a friend of mine is running *NT*, for crying out loud, on a P166.
>> It works fine.
>>
>> I have a Celery running Windows. It's not as powerful or as fast as any of
>> my other boxes - but in practice, the only time I experience delays, it's
>> because disks can only read a few megs a second still. Or because I have a
>> slow net feed.
>>
>> >And do you also think it's fair that Microsoft tries to take all
>> >the credit
>> >for their supposed increase in performance that's actually caused by better
>> >hardware???
>>
>> No. And I make a point of telling people, whenever I get the chance, that
>> Unix probably gets twice the performance (or more) out of a given piece of
>> hardware that Windows does.
>>
>> But that doesn't mean the performance Windows get on a given box can't be
>> good enough for a given user.
>>
>> >Running Windows on a PIII, is like driving a $200,000 Porsche only
>> >backwards.....
>>
>> Nah. It's like getting a GPS system for your diesel Rabbit, and getting a
>> GPS that broadcasts your location to everyone. :)
>>
>> -s
>> --
>> Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
>> Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/
>> Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam!
>
>ok i think we'll call it a draw here :)? ok with you?
Hmm. An interesting thought -- this phrase is usually used in competition --
any thoughts on the social implications of using this phrase in a friendly
discussion?
--
================================================
Ewan Dunbar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
================================================
Visit Preston Manning: Action Hero at
http://earl.thedunbars.com/pmah/index.html
================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Carl Fink)
Subject: Re: Computer virus threat to Linux?
Date: 2 May 1999 10:47:48 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 2 May 1999 02:03:51 GMT Keven R. Pittsinger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Why would this matter? The *only* time you'd have to worry about a Word
>macro trojan horse (which Word macro 'viruses' really are) is if you're
>running as root. As long as you run them under just your normal 'mortal'
>user account, they *CANNOT* destroy your entire system, but at *worst*
>only erase everything in your home directory.
I have to assume you didn't read this over before sending it.
Do you really think that the loss of one's home directory *doesnt'
matter*?!
No, it's not as bad as losing everything on a system, but most of my
important data is in my home directory. I can restore /usr, /etc/,
and so forth from backup with no problem, because they rarely change.
My actual work in in ~carlf.
--
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum
<http://dm.net>
------------------------------
From: "David L. Courtney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LINUX and DOS, network file shareing?
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 03:45:20 GMT
>
> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lloyd Weehuizen)
>writes:
> >I'm just wondering if anybody knows of software that will allow LINUX
> >and >DOS to mount each others drives over a network? I'm sure there
> >must be a NFS >mount program for DOS, and if possible some way of the
> >LINUX machines seeing >the DOS drive??
>
> Lloyd,
> There's a book that addresses this. Name is "Networking Dos and Unix."
I had one 3 or 4 years ago, loaned it out, never got it back. Possibly
you can check Books in Print somewhere on the 'net. HTH.
DLC
------------------------------
From: "Martin Ozolins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Microsoft is the Communist!!!
Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:51:34 -0700
Christopher B. Browne wrote in message ...
>On Sat, 01 May 1999 21:09:10 +0200, Prins Olivier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
posted:
>>"Christopher B. Browne" wrote:
>>> Fascism (and you at least spelled it right; so many call it "facism")
>>> is the great "demon" of the 20th century; the fact that Godwin's Law
>>> exists establishes that it's a great conversation-stopper.
>>>
>>> It is less clear, difficult to prove, and *impossible* to (due to
>>> things like Godwin's Law) usefully debate whether communism could have
>>> caused FAAAAR worse results than fascism has.
>>>
>>> There probably have been more deaths resulting from actions of
>>> putatively communist states than from the actions of fascist states,
>>> but it's not useful to debate this, because [flodA reltiH] (reverse
>>> it!) tends to quickly come up, and peoples' prejudices and other
>>> immensely strong feelings squelch the communication of ideas.
>>
>>You forget that if you use the word communism for those states, you are
very
>>wrong those states ween't even close to communism.
>
>I most certainly did *not* forget the issue which I'd reword as "the
>states that *claimed* to be ``communist'' weren't really following
>Marx's original ideals;" I described such places using the phrase:
> "putatively communist states"
>which indicates (and was *directly intended* to indicate) that they
>were called such, but that whether they were or not is arguable.
>
>>They could, arguably, be in the state of the dictatorship of the
>>working class. Which always turned out to be just an ordinary
>>dictatorship of a few ppl, no matter what other ppl try.
>
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. The degradation of the
Dictatorship of the Proletariat into just Dictatorship proved that old saw
into an axiom.
>
>
>Which represents another reason why "Communism" and "Fascism," as
>expressed in our century, are more similar than anyone seems
>comfortable with.
>
>>The communistic state has never been achieved, a lot of ppl say it
>>isn't possible because it would an utopia, it would be paradise on
>>earth which THEY think is impossible..
>
>That would probably be something to be claimed by those Christians
>that *actually* understand Christian theology; the concept of "Utter
>Depravity," one of the results of "The Fall of Man," is incompatible
>with the construction of a "utopia."
>
>Utter Depravity refers to the notion that human character is
>inherently fatally flawed. It is commonly *misunderstood* to mean
>that "pagans will tend to do the worst possible things," with the
>assumption that Christians, being Holier Than Thou, don't have this
>flaw. What it *actually* means is that even at our very best, our
>characters are sufficiently flawed as to mean *everyone* has ample
>opportunity to mess up.
>
>Which is certainly not helpful when trying to construct a utopia.
>
>The more common view is not that utopia is inherently impossible, but
>rather that implementing the communist variety is impossible because
>the methodology of getting to communism can't work.
>
>We have seen a whole pile of would-be "Communist Revolutions;" they
>all have had varying flaws that have resulted in failure to accomplish
>the "communist utopia."
>
>Personally, I'd go with both views; that utopia is impossible, *and*
>that constructing a communist state that follows the ideals is *also*
>impossible.
>
>--
>Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
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