Linux-Misc Digest #210, Volume #20 Fri, 14 May 99 23:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: Pro-Unix vs anti-WinTel (Christopher Browne)
Re: news: Linux growth at 25% per year. (Christopher Browne)
Re: well, what about Debian? (William Burrow)
Re: Module problems: lo, eth0 and ppp ("Jordan Russell")
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (John S. Dyson)
Re: well, what about Debian? ("Cameron Spitzer")
LINUX Kernel/Device Driver Expert, offsite-short term ("ELSID Software Systems LTD.")
Re: well, what about Debian? (Andrew Chung)
Re: page faults (Bob Tennent)
Re: RedHat 6.0 crashes ALL the time (Mark Forsyth)
"doc contain no data" error on internet access (Mukund)
make your first $1 million (Wong)
Re: Most stable kernel? (Ray)
Re: LILO.CONF ("Bill Bentley")
Re: Installing Linux with Windows 9x (again!)... (Robert Hull)
Re: Strange password problem (Robert Hull)
Don't Have libgtk-1.1.so.13 (Jason Bond)
No space left on device (g gilmore)
problem with ZIP drive under LINUX (Jan Wuyts)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Pro-Unix vs anti-WinTel
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 01:33:42 GMT
On 14 May 1999 19:46:29 +0100, Richard Caley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michael Powe (mp) writes:
>mp> Why don't you give an example of the "pre-compiled binary from god
>mp> knows what teenaged hackers jokeshop"?
>
>What do you want an example of? The internet ois full of binaries of
>who nows what origin.
Ah.
So because there's binaries of "who nows what origin" on the Internet,
Linux is thereby established as a result of "god knows what teenaged
hackers jokeshop."
Do you see just the teensiest bit of fallacy in that implication?
We could say exactly the same thing about FreeBSD based on the same
set of information.
>I was just saying I don't see why I should trust them over verified
>source from the real home of whateveritis.
Cool.
You care about that.
I care about that.
The developers working on Debian care about that, and the gazillions
of ".deb" files provide quite similar levels of guarantee to what
Ports can provide.
Packages don't go into Debian unless they have been signed off
(cryptographically) by a verified team member; they use "pristine
source," applying what patches prove necessary, and then MD5 checksums
are provided, parallel to the package, so that those that care to
verify that they have the Real McCoy can do so.
There's not so well-integrated a scheme for handling RPMs, but if you
are truly interested in verifying things, it makes sense to download
source RPMs, which, again, contain pristine source that may be
verified against the original home of whateveritis, and may then be
compiled, and turned into binary RPMs for installation.
Is it identical to Ports? No.
If you choose to prefer Ports due to its identity as "Ports," then
anything that is not identical will be, ipso facto, *considered*
inferior, regardless of whether or not it is inferior *in fact.*
Ports is different from dpkg is different from NSBD is different from
stow is different from RPM. Each has some relative strengths and
relative weaknesses.
Hurling abuse over the differences is about as useful as getting into
a dung fight; the given in such is that regardless of who wins and who
loses, *everybody* smells *REALLY* bad at the end...
--
Would-be National Mottos:
USA: "We don't care where you come from. We can't find our *own*
country on a map..."
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: news: Linux growth at 25% per year.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 01:33:45 GMT
On 13 May 1999 18:45:44 -0700, david parsons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <7hf98v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, bob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>found this on http://www.idc.com web page.
>>good news for GNU/Linux !
>
> I suppose. All the article mentions is Linux, though, so I'd
> imagine that the good news is for the other big distributions, not
> Debian, because the they are for-profit and thus directly benefit
> from an increased market share, while all Debian gets is more bug
> reports.
Those bug reports aren't nearly as "sexy" as the deployment of a K001
graphical environment, but spell the major difference between Debian
and the other guys, which is that bug reports sometimes lead to bug
fixes.
It has definitely occurred to me that the "new version-itis" of the
commercial Linux distributions parallels Bill Gates' comments where he
essentially indicated that MSFT wouldn't simply release bug fixes to
their software, but rather wait 'til they could *sell* the customers
on a new version.
That view is informative when compared to such things as:
- SuSE just released a new version;
- Caldera just released a new version;
- TurboLinux had a release not long ago;
- Red Hat just released a new version.
It must be said in their favor that these guys all *do* have coherent
ways of deploying quite usable alternatives to what IBM and MSFT would
call "Service Packs."
If Red Hat finds a problem with the Sendmail configuration, they can,
*and do* put a package with the update out on their FTP site, and the
fix is readily installed. It's *definitely* a cleaner process than
the "Oh, you'll have to install NT and upgrade SP1, SP2, SP3, SP4,
SP5, and SP6. Oops. You don't have the CD with SP3; problem..."
But the much-ballyhooed "Red Hat 6.0" release doesn't seem to me to be
something that was done because they had anything *truly* important to
offer.
- They pushed to have some form of GNOME in it; GNOME is still not
mature enough for the role they want to give it...
- It's nice enough to have kernel 2.2.x, but this doesn't seem to me
to warrant the upgrade.
- Possibly they're using some "lately stable" EGCS/GLIBC combination
(your sarcasm being fully expected, you don't even need to comment
on this)
- They may have a couple of extra X servers, but the *important*
upgrade in this regard, XFree86 4.0, isn't ready, and isn't expected
to be *real* soon. A move to 4.0 would be one of those major
enhancements that would arguably "warrant" a new release.
Aside from the GNOME "politicization" that would be associated with
Red Hat, the same things apply to {SuSE | Caldera | PHT} equally well,
and cynicism about *all* the "upgrades" are equally relevant.
Debian is rather a little more "honest" on this; they do not have a
pecuniary interest in selling more CDs, particularly since many, many
people do upgrades over the Internet, the packaging system is
*extremely* supportive of upgrading components, and simply that they
don't directly sell CDs.
--
"Face it, Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being
a villain in a James Bond movie." --Dennis Miller.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Burrow)
Subject: Re: well, what about Debian?
Date: 15 May 1999 00:41:35 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 14 May 1999 23:54:33 GMT,
Quoc A. Vu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I'm thinking about using the Debian distribution. Any thought on it?
Yeah, binary packages suck. RPM or dpkg, forget it. If you're serious
about a particular package (eg. web server, Perl, etc.), get the source
and compile it.
>far) or Caldera or RedHat (suckest!), etc. I hear that the Debian
>distribution is pretty technical, which I like. Should I change from
It has the horrible dselect thing, but that is replaced by something
called apt, which is supposedly much better.
>SuSE 6.0 for Debian? What's the latest distribution of Debian now?
Potato is the latest dev version, 2.1 is the latest stable version.
>Where can I get a copy on CD for a reasonable price? Thanks.
Cheapbytes, LinuxMall, lsl. URLs are easy to construct.
--
William Burrow -- New Brunswick, Canada o
Copyright 1999 William Burrow ~ /\
~ ()>()
------------------------------
From: "Jordan Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Module problems: lo, eth0 and ppp
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:42:56 GMT
I've got the same problem too, but enabling IP aliasing had no effect at
all. Still get the same errors in the log.
Jordan Russell
Martin van Roon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I had the same problem. I've traced it down to not having ip aliasing
> turned on in the kernel. If turned on most likely these messages will
> disappear.
>
> The messages are generated by the linuxconf command called from the
> script: /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup-aliases.
>
> Also removing linuxconf will get rid of the messages.
>
> I am running:
> kernel-2.2.5-15
> linuxconf-1.14r4-4
>
> Good luck,
> Martin
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John S. Dyson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism
Date: 14 May 1999 14:54:50 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Greg Yantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Michael Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Greg> Do you know what a libertarian is? Or is your only
>> Greg> experience with libertarians and libertarianism comprised of
>> Greg> having to listen to fools who only call themselves
>> Greg> "libertarian", but really are just idiots?
>>
>> Yeah, a libertarian is a person who fancies himself genetically and
>> morally superior to the rest of the human race. He spouts a line of
>> political pseudo-philosophy that incorporates the word `freedom' in
>> every sentence & that is all designed to justify his own position at
>> the top of the ant hill.
>
> That would be pretty obnoxious if it were true. But it simply isn't.
> It's very difficult to even have a discussion with you, because you
> have this really strong emotional attachment to "facts" that do not
> reflect reality.
>
I agree 100% with you here. It is the "I'll take care of you, because
I know what you need more than you do" types that are the errsatz
morally superior types. That seems to be almost the antithesis of
libertarian ideals (which I am not one, but admire some aspects of
the philosophy.)
The pseudo-superior types are: (1) politicians that fashion gov't programs
to seduce the public into a false sense of being taken care of, and
other emotional arguments. (2) those who write licenses that make
claims about maximizing freedom or fairness.
To protect oneself, in the short term, it is sometimes necessary to
avoid being an idealogue, but in the longer term, it is very important
to keep an understanding of and handle on one's own ideals. Following
blindly those who "lead" causes situations like the crazy gov't problems
in the US today. Too many politicians and license creators either lie
or are "mentally mislead" :-).
--
John | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | it makes one look stupid
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | and it irritates the pig.
------------------------------
From: "Cameron Spitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: well, what about Debian?
Date: 15 May 1999 01:43:28 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Quoc A. Vu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I'm thinking about using the Debian distribution. Any thought on it?
I have installed SLS, GCC, Slackware, Yggdrasil, Milieu, Red Hat,
Debian, and SuSE.
Debian and GCC are my favorites, followed by SuSE.
The only *bad* experiences were SLS, Yggdrasil, and Red Hat.
Milieu and GCC seem to have gone away.
Milieu was the weirdest. It contained only what was needed to
run Metafont/TeX/LaTeX, and when you installed it, it built its own
documentation, which turned out to be course notes for an introduction to
computer programming with Metafont as the First Language.
>How is it compare to other distributions such as SuSE (my favourite so
>far) or Caldera or RedHat (suckest!), etc. I hear that the Debian
>distribution is pretty technical, which I like. Should I change from
>SuSE 6.0 for Debian?
That depends on your needs. Debian's strength is its army of developers,
most of whom are committed to making their package the best installation
possible. If you want support, you're *expected* to participate, by
joining and unjoining mailing lists, filing timely and precise
bug reports, and digging for arcane and obscure documentation.
If you're the type for whom learning curve is not an issue, Debian is
the best.
SuSE is a good commercial distribution, with little of the
brand differentiation that annoys Linux old-timers about Red Hat.
If you just need to pop in a disk and get a work machine running fast,
SuSE is probably the best choice right now.
>What's the latest distribution of Debian now?
>Where can I get a copy on CD for a reasonable price? Thanks.
2.1, US$3, www.lsl.com
Cameron
------------------------------
From: "ELSID Software Systems LTD." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: LINUX Kernel/Device Driver Expert, offsite-short term
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 19:42:54 -0400
Sorry to post here but I just can't find any one to do this. What we
need
is a web page dedicated to Linux jobs :-).
===========================================
Short term contract for a Linux expert in device driver design and
implementation.
This is off site work but face to face meetings may be during the
project.
Submit resumes listing Linux experience to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please
include your per deim rate.
ELSID Software Systems LTD
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Chung)
Subject: Re: well, what about Debian?
Date: 15 May 1999 01:00:49 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 14 May 1999 23:54:33 GMT, Quoc A. Vu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm thinking about using the Debian distribution. Any thought on it?
>How is it compare to other distributions such as SuSE (my favourite so
>far) or Caldera or RedHat (suckest!), etc. I hear that the Debian
>distribution is pretty technical, which I like. Should I change from
>SuSE 6.0 for Debian? What's the latest distribution of Debian now?
>Where can I get a copy on CD for a reasonable price? Thanks.
Debian is "traditionally" seen as a distro geared more towards programmers and
such.. I think someone told me that there's more deb packages than any other
distros but I'm not sure.. I've also heard people say that it's difficult to
install, although I've installed it without any problems..
The stable version is 2.1 (slink). The unstable version is potato (possibly
2.2). My advice is to go with slink.. unstable is unstable right now.. =)
You can get CD's from CheapBytes (www.cheapbytes.com). The 4 CD set is only
7 dollars.
--
Andrew Chung [EMAIL PROTECTED]
See http://anderoo.dhs.org/~anderoo/pgp.html for PGP key
It's a sin only if you dwell on the what ifs and the but ifs
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Tennent)
Subject: Re: page faults
Date: 14 May 1999 23:11:49 GMT
Reply-To: rdt(a)cs.queensu.ca
On Fri, 14 May 1999 21:32:39 GMT, NF Stevens wrote:
>> >
>>OK, I've tested my RAM using memtest and it detected no errors.
>>So what *else* might be causing apparently random page faults?
>
>I had a couple of those page fault things immediately after
>upgrading to kernel 2.2.5. I cleaned all the dust out of the
>fan on my processor. It hasn't occurred again yet. (Touch wood).
>
Good suggestion. In fact my CPU fan wasn't even moving. Since
replacing it, I haven't had a page fault. Thanks.
Bob T.
------------------------------
From: Mark Forsyth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: RedHat 6.0 crashes ALL the time
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:55:26 +1000
If you restore your original system do the crashes still occur ?
Does your lilo.conf reflect the amount of memory you have ?
(eg mem="128M" )
If BOTH of the above are true then I'd suspect memory. I spent
WEEKS mucking about with such problems. I had problems where IF
I could get the system booted it'd stay up. It never crashed except
when rebooting. As a last ditch, desperate attempt to cure the problem
I replaced all of memory. Problem solved.....:)
YMMV
Mark F...
Seer wrote:
>
> Hey now! I've been running Linux for 3 years or so and haven't done an
> install in a long time. So a week ago I ftp'ed Redhat 6.0 to a FAT32
> drive and backed up my /usr and /home partitions. I wiped a drive clean
> and started the install.
>
> Installed fine. Very slick. But when I went to boot. First of all,
> Lilo crashed at "LI" with no "LO". Not a very uncommon problem, so I
> booted from a floppy (the image that's on the Redhat distro)
>
> So here's the meat of the problem. The system is crashing left and
> right, all the time for a number or reasons. I get Kernel oops
> messages, things like "Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference
> at virtual address 00000090". and a ton of different message just like
> it (with a bunch of pointers, and registers a such)
>
> Also, I will do simple commands like "man lilo" and it will be "Unable
> to perform command". But when I'll just type it again and it'll work
> (for a few pages, and then crap out). Every command is like that, where
> it may or may not work at any whim.
>
> Anyway, I have a K6-2 350, PC Chips mainboard, ATI Xpert@play, Voodoo 2,
> SB awe 64, WD 80xx ISAethernet card and 64 megs ram. All my drives are
> IDE, nothing fancy in any respect. I have been running a mostly updated
> to redhat 5.2 (with many a patch to up it to the 2.2.x kernel series)
> until I hosed it with this install of Redhat 6. Please help.
>
> Right now i'm compiling a small sweet kernel to floppy using 2.2.9 to
> see if any of that Silent Death stuff is affecting me. HELP!
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Seer
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Mukund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.misc
Subject: "doc contain no data" error on internet access
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 02:09:05 GMT
I installed RedHat 6.0 recently and set up a ppp connection using kppp.
When I tried to get to any site using Netscape, I get an error "The
Document contains no data. Try again later, or contact the server's
administrator". lynx says something to the effect of "Network
error. Connection terminated unexpectedly". Tried using different
browsers for the same result. I could ping most of the sites.
Can someone help me with this please?
Mukund
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
------------------------------
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ray)
Subject: Re: Most stable kernel?
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 02:28:10 GMT
On 12 May 1999 22:37:05 GMT, Tam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi,
>
> I would like to hear from anybody about your experience with stability
>of your Linux system. I want to do heavy serial I/O without ever seeing
>a crash:) Seriously, do I need to write my own embedded system to see
>this kind of reliability? I've heard stories of peoples' systems staying
>up for months at a time. Please (in)validate these stories.
Months at a time isn't even a big deal. I've set up many linux boxes that
stay up pretty much indefinately. Personally I use Debian but there is no
reason you couldn't use RedHat or Slackware or whatever if you feel more
comfortable with these. I've also tried FreeBSD and it seems plenty stable
too.
--
Ray
------------------------------
From: "Bill Bentley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: LILO.CONF
Date: 12 May 1999 19:42:45 GMT
TS Stahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> Sorry, Janine, Winbloze has to be on the *FIRST* drive, no exception.
Put
> w95 back on hda and your problems will go away. BTW, linux could boot
from
> magnetically encoded licorice, if need be.
Hmm... only if you've written a device driver for the licorice drive... ;)
Actually, leaving Win9x on a hdb is not a problem. In fact, it simplified
my triple-boot machine at home (DOS and Linux on hda, Win98 on hdb). Take
a look at the lilo docs at how to logically swap the drives so that when
Win9x is chosen, it thinks it is running from device 0x80...
CYAL8R
------------------------------
From: Robert Hull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Installing Linux with Windows 9x (again!)...
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:16:29 +0100
In article <TUJZ2.12915$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Graeme Fenwick
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Stuart HIrons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:7h4p95$gkd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>:
>: I had the same problem as you, 6.4gb HD with 800mb already used with Win95
>: (ugh).
>: So I risked the whole installation
>
>Yep... this is my whole problem.. "risked the whole installation". I know
>about FIPS, or at least it rang a faint bell somewhere, but playing Russian
>Roulette with my data was the part that didn't appeal. And that would go
>even for something like Partition Magic...
>
Using the DOS bit of Partition Magic, I have successfully reconfigured
my partitions on a 6.4GB drive on several occasions each time without
any loss of data. Reasons for doing this have included:
- adding an OS/2 partition,
- Growing a Doze 95 partition (damn but that Doze is disk hungry!)
- Backing up a partition by creating a duplicate
- Adding an extra partition for Linux
- etc.
I strongly recommend that product. Of course YMMV so they say
--
Robert Talking to yourself - first sign of madness
Answering yourself back - first sign of schizophrenia
I go one better: If I don't like the answer ...
I put it to a majority vote
------------------------------
From: Robert Hull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Strange password problem
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:52:01 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Robert Thomas
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Rob Fisher wrote:
>
>>
>> How long is your passwd? Unix only uses the first eight characters of
>> the passwd, so the ninth letter onward are igonred.
>You are right.
[snip]
>
>Eight characters seems to me to
>be too short for a really secure system, don't you think?
>
If you are using mix and match with upper and lower case alpha together
with numerics, you have over 218 000 000 000 000 possible combinations
of password, is that not secure enough for you ?
--
Robert Talking to yourself - first sign of madness
Answering yourself back - first sign of schizophrenia
I go one better: If I don't like the answer ...
I put it to a majority vote
------------------------------
From: Jason Bond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Don't Have libgtk-1.1.so.13
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 19:43:29 -0700
I have installed gtk+-1.2.1-1, gtk+-devel-1.2.1-1,
gdb-4.17.0.4-3, gdbm-devel-1.7.3-17, and gdbm-1.7.3-17, and when I try
to install a certain
rpm, it says:
failed dependencies:
libgdk-1.1.so.13 is needed by gftp-1.12-1
libglib-1.1.so.13 is needed by gftp-1.12-1
libgmodule-1.1.so.13 is needed by gftp-1.12-1
libgtk-1.1.so.13 is needed by gftp-1.12-1
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Jason
------------------------------
From: g gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: No space left on device
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:11:36 -0700
My HD filled up so I cleared somethings out and made space. But
still when logged in as an user I cannot make directories, write to
files, compile programs --anything that writes to anything. I get an
error message that says 'No space left on device'. I believe there is
space. Root does not have this problem.
How come?
--
http://www.speakeasy.org/~gilmore
------------------------------
From: Jan Wuyts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.iomega.zip.jaz,alt.iomega.zip.jazz,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: problem with ZIP drive under LINUX
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 19:52:50 +0200
I am having this strange problem with my ZIP(100) drive under linux:
since I upgraded to RedHat 6.0 (Kernel 2.2.5) writing to the drive gives some problems.
There is no problem with reading, but when I write a file to a disk (any disk), it
becomes
corrupted: the file is there and it is exactly the size it should be, but part of it
is converted to
junk.
(every +-50kb a few 100 bytes are changed (approximate numbers))
I don't think it's a hardware problem because under windows everything works fine.
Can anybody help me with this one ??
Thanks an advance:
Jan.
Jan Wuyts
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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