Linux-Misc Digest #868, Volume #20 Wed, 30 Jun 99 21:13:12 EDT
Contents:
Re: Having trouble compiling (Collin W. Hitchcock)
Re: Permissions - why can a user delete a file not his own? (Bill Unruh)
Re: An "ls" question (Johannes Nix)
Re: Permissions - why can a user delete a file not his own? (Neil Rickert)
Re: An "ls" question (Johannes Nix)
Re: libXp problem because vmware needs glibc ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: word processing programs that work on terminals ("John G. Sandell")
FWD- The Anatomy of a Frontal Assault on Apache (Alex Lam)
[NEED] RPM GUI ("Bunbi")
Re: Can't get linux to open (Tarkaan)
Permissions - why can a user delete a file not his own? (Thomas Cameron)
Re: Need Iomega Ditto 3200 (3.2G) Tape Drive info ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
FWD- MS in frame in 4m user 'racism' class action bid (Alex Lam)
Re: Modem problem :-( (Brian Olson)
Re: This is my favorite Linux site (it has everything) (Anthony Tsakiris)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Collin W. Hitchcock)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Having trouble compiling
Date: 30 Jun 1999 19:59:19 -0400
> On 30 Jun 1999 00:03:25 -0400, Collin W. Hitchcock wrote:
>
> >3) Compiling a program from source is not and never will be an
> >activity for the 'mainstream' user. Sadly, the mainstream future of
> >Linux is programs that are parts of distributions and third party
> >programs designed to work with particular distributions.
>
> Why not?
>
> less INSTALL (or README)
> ./configure
> make
> su
> make install
> exit
> man <program>
If you'd read the original post to which I was responding, you'd have
seen that the original poster tried exactly what you suggested and IT
DIDN'T WORK. Configure failed to detect an incompatible version of a
shared library. This kind of thing happens all the time.
> People who cater to these idiots are only making the problem
> worse. Microsoft would be at the very top of my list, BTW.
These "idiots" are 99% of the population. No matter how much you hate
them they won't change. They just want the damn thing to work without
any hastle (I understand how they feel. I just want my income tax
return done without any hastle. I don't care if all I have to do is
read the instructions and follow them. I'd rather pull out my own
fingernails). So far everyone is doing badly here, but Microsoft is
doing less badly than everyone else.
So maybe we should let Microsoft have the idiot 99%. Then we will
never see the day that all new hardware ships with Linux drivers and
when all the software that you need to use comes in a Linux version.
Everyone will always need a Windows machine on one corner of the desk
for when one of the idiot 99 sends them an MS Word document.
I want the best of both worlds. I want to be able to hack the kernel
source, but I also want my system to work with any hardware on the
market. I want to be able to run any software package out there.
This will never happen until we bring the idiot 99 on board, and we
can't do that by getting mad at them; they won't change so we must.
If it makes you feel better, notice that we can still hate the idiots
even while writing GUI configuration tools and packaging binaries into
idiot proof distributions. It can be a completely selfish effort to
increase acceptance of Linux for our own purposes with the unfortunate
side effect of helping the less technically oriented.
To conclude I repeat: Compiling a program from source is not and never
will be an activity for the 'mainstream' user. My grandmother will
never compile a program from source, but we need her to run Linux if
we want to win. Yes this sucks. Do we want to get mad about it, or
do we want to win the war?
Collin
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,alt.os.slackware,comp.os.linux.security
Subject: Re: Permissions - why can a user delete a file not his own?
Date: 1 Jul 1999 00:17:09 GMT
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thomas Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
>drwxrwx-- 2 root acct 1024 Jun 30 17:16 acct
>I need all acct group members to be able to write files to this
>directory, but I do not want them to be able to delete other users'
>files in the directory.
man chmod.
I t is called the sticky bit permission.
chmod +t acct
It only allows owners of a file to erase the file.
(The permissions on a directory are the ones that are examined when the
contents of the directory are changed-- eg a file erased. The
permissions on a file only say how the contents of that file are
changed
------------------------------
From: Johannes Nix <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,utah.linux
Subject: Re: An "ls" question
Date: 01 Jul 1999 01:47:43 +0200
Cameron Hutchison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> So, Carl, did you just miss it in the man page, muck up your debian install
> or are you just lying here trying to discredit linux?
>
> (I normally wouldn't suspect someone of blatant lying, but I believe that
> it will be one of micros~1's tactics and this "Carl" may just be a micros~1
> stooge. You see, as soon as I read Carl's response, I did a "man ls",
> looked straight at the -l option and found he was wrong within about 3
> seconds).
>
sorry, I think this is very bad style. It is probable that Carl tells
the truth. On my own system, there are no info pages for many GNU
tools, only a reference to the info pages.
It think it is not fair to name another person a liard if you are not
sure about this and cannot prove that. I think also that nobody should
act with hate in the usenet because it is a community space and such
flames discredit our community. Also because your flame hits a real
person and you can believe me that flames hurt. You are not beating a
computer but a human person. So act as if you communicate with a
person please.
We should be happy that there are so many newbies which have to learn
Linux/GNU concepts and are bothering us with questions. A clear sign
of Linux' attractiveness.
Every one of us has asked much duller questions or not ?
==================================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
==================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Neil Rickert)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,alt.os.slackware,comp.os.linux.security
Subject: Re: Permissions - why can a user delete a file not his own?
Date: 30 Jun 1999 18:27:09 -0500
Thomas Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>I have a group call acct (GID 504). The users beth (UID 510) and thomas
>(UID 508) are members. Their primary group membership is to group users
>(GID 100).
>I have a directory called acct, owned by user root and group acct, and
>ls -l shows its permissions are like this:
>drwxrwx-- 2 root acct 1024 Jun 30 17:16 acct
>I need all acct group members to be able to write files to this
>directory, but I do not want them to be able to delete other users'
>files in the directory.
chmod +t acct
>In that directory, I have a file called tcdata, and ls -l shows
>permissions set as follows:
>-rw-r--r-- 1 thomas users 50 Jun 30 17:15 tcdata
>That tells me that user thomas can modify it, but no one else can.
>However, when beth logs in, if she rm's the file, it asks if she wants
>to override permissions 0644. When she says yes, the file is gone.
>What am I missing? What do I do to make it so that folks can create
>files, modify their own files, but not delete or modify other folks'
>files?
Strictly speaking, nobody can delete files on unix. The unix kernel
deletes files. When you do 'rm file' you are not deleting the file -
you are removing the directory entry for the file. If the kernel
then discovers that the file has become inaccessible, it deletes the
file.
As long as user beth has write access to the directory, she can
delete directory entries. However, the 'chmod +t' alters this. When
the directory has the sticky bit, then you cannot remove a directory
entry unless you own the file or own the directory (or you are
root).
------------------------------
From: Johannes Nix <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: An "ls" question
Date: 01 Jul 1999 01:34:56 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Carl Fink) writes:
> On 29 Jun 1999 15:40:00 GMT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >If you read the ls man page, it should tell you.
>
> The operative word being "should". It doesn't on my Debian Linux 2.x
> system. See, Linux (as opposed to your SunOS) comes with GNU ls, and
> for reasons that can only be called "bad" GNU is now supporting only
> the execrable info files for documentation. If you don't use emacs,
> info files are painful to use, so some things are hard to look up.
On my SuSE 5.3 Linux/GNU, System it does not also. But it does so if
you type "info ls", because info is installed properly. So you do not
have to use emacs, info is a standalone program.
info is a very conenient terminal-based hypertext system. It is much
better than man pages to give introductional informations, because it
is hypertext. Man is really a reference manual, it normally does not
give any introduction and few examples.
For this reason, especially newbies should learn it _first_ ("info
info"). Most of the GNU software is documented with info, and they put
_a lot_ effort to make it understandable.
To understand the advantages of info, you should perhaps have a look
to the CVS documentation or another big manual. With info you are able
to read a whole book, or search waht matters now! If your compare man
pages for "tar" and the "tar" info pages, your will see what is
better.
I know that there is also an info reader integrated in gnome
(gnome-help-browser) and there is also an info frontend for KDE
(kdehelp), and there exists also an xinfo tool which I did not found
very usable. Perhaps xinfo was misconfigured.
have a fine day,
Johannes
==================================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
==================================================
------------------------------
Subject: Re: libXp problem because vmware needs glibc
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 30 Jun 1999 14:24:46 -0700
Vic Mortelmans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Trying to run vmware I get this message:
>
> reJoyceII:~$ vmware
> vmware: error in loading shared libraries
> /usr/X11R6/lib/libXp.so.6: undefined symbol: _Xsetlocale
>
> Having read the troubleshooting on the vmware-site, I think it's a
> glibc-problem. My libXp.so.6 is quite old and statically linked,
> probably not
> with the requiered glibc-libs.
>
> What can I do about this? Probably I will have to upgrade libXp to a
> glibc-linked version. Does it mean all my X-libs need upgrading? Do I
> need to
> upgrade my whole Xfree if I do this (I'd rather not!). What's the best
> way to
> obtain new X-libs?
>
> And if you have time left: is it advisable to turn my system over to
> glibc at
> the moment? I have the impression all this glibc-stuff is in some sort
> of
> beta-stage!? Would it totally replace other c-libs?
If I were you I would just get a distro with glibc2 in it.
This way you get everything, the new libc, and the new libXp.
Also, look and see what libXp needs, and were _Xsetlocale is.
------------------------------
From: "John G. Sandell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: word processing programs that work on terminals
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:15:34 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Years ago I set up a client with a 386 and Interactive UNIX, used MS
FoxPro 2.6 for the database application, V/Pix and WordStar 7 for MS-DOS
as the word processor. The script that started WordStar first kicked the
Wyse 150 terminals into PC Scancode mode so WordStar was happy with the
output device. When the users exited WS, the script kicked the terminals
back into Wyse 150 mode, used for the FoxPro application.
I'm upgrading the old system (it's been a 486 for years) to a 586 with
Linux. I've shown users StarOffice and Applix but they'd rather have
something like WordStar (no mouse to deal with - mice slow down touch
typists).
I've installed dosemu but haven't been able to find out if Linux can
work with scancodes. I suspect it should be able to, since it's the dos
emulator and dos that will be dealing with the terminal.
emacs and vi meet with customer resistance.
I was hoping joe could replace WordStar, but it doesn't seem to be ready
for prime time -- too many rough edges.
Corel WordPerfect 8 could do it, but the per-user price makes MS Word
look attractive...
John Sandell
Rod Smith wrote:
>
> [Posted and mailed]
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "John G. Sandell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > Something I've missed seeing in these newsgroups - do any of the word
> > processing programs available for Linux work on dumb terminals?
> >
> > Apparently Word Perfect 8 for Linux Server Edition will, but it's not
> > available yet.
>
> I know I've seen references to people actually using the WP8 server
> edition, though I've not used it myself. So either it's available or
> these people had "inside sources" to get early copies. You might want to
> look into this again.
>
> > Anyone know if StarOffice or Applix have terminal capability?
>
> No; both are GUI-only programs.
>
> I have heard of something that was a text-based Linux word processor, but
> I'm afraid I don't recall the name. Try doing a Deja News search on
> appropriate keywords; you'll probably turn it up.
>
> Another option would be to run a DOS word processor under DOSEMU. I
> understand that WordPerfect 5.x for DOS runs quite well under DOSEMU.
>
> Yet another option would be to use a text editor (Emacs, vi, whatever) and
> use a markup language like LaTeX. This isn't technically quite the same
> as a word processor, but there's substantial overlap in capabilities, so
> it may do what you need.
>
> --
> Rod Smith
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.channel1.com/users/rodsmith
> NOTE: Remove the "uce" word from my address to mail me
> Author of _Special Edition Using WordPerfect for Linux_, from Que;
> see http://www.channel1.com/users/rodsmith/books.html
------------------------------
From: Alex Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FWD- The Anatomy of a Frontal Assault on Apache
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:41:20 -0700
===============FWD=================
The Anatomy of a Frontal Assault on Apache
brainwasher - June 29th 1999, 14:42 EST
Conrad Sanderson, a PhD student in Australia, and an advent critic
of Microsoft, sent in an interesting piece about Microsoft's
upcoming frontal assault on Apache with the release of Windows 2000,
and its effect on Linux. To read the text, hit the details
link.
Microsoft's Web Server Strategy - another case of
integration
AKA The Anatomy of a Frontal Assault on Apache
v1.04 (updated)
Microsoft's Steve Ballmer has recently made some interesting noises
in Austria. As mentioned in LinuxToday and Microsoft,
Kanzler Klima ... (translated via Babelfish), during a keynote
address (and/or an interview) Ballmer said "Apache is simply
better." And then: "It is our own fault if we do not offer enough
features with our servers to justify their price. When it comes to
hosting several sites on one server version, Apache is simply
better. Windows 2000 will solve this problem."
This is a warning sign 1000 miles high and wide that is easy to
decipher knowing Microsoft's tactics and their history.
Everybody knows what happened to Netscape. Let me dissect what is
going to happen to Apache (and indirectly, to Linux):
Microsoft admitting that Apache is better ? Let's remember that
Microsoft is more of a marketing company - they would never, ever, I
repeat, ever do that. They are too accustomed to spreading FUD and
proclaiming "our stuff is better than competition" even when it
clearly isn't so. Since they are admitting that the
price/performance/features equation of Apache is better than anything
Microsoft has to offer, it means they have gotten used to the idea,
mulled it over, and came up with a solution. Apache is not just
hurting them financially in the server market - it is also hurting
them in the statistics game, and Microsoft hates not being on top.
They hate not being in control. At last count Apache has 57% of the
server market while MS had about 23%.
The MS solution to the Apache problem: Windows 2000 will have a
simple (lightweight?) web server - very easy to setup and maintain,
prominently sitting on the desktop. This will be "integrated" into the
operating system, just as Internet Explorer was in Win98.
This MS web server will also be available as a free download,
for use on Win95 and Win98 machines. This is done purely to spread it
and populate it everywhere - make use of the existing Windows
userbase, since the Windows 2000 upgrade
(read: migration) will take some time. Have you counted how many
pirate MP3 sites use primitive FTP servers running on Windows ? The
installed user base of Windows machines runs into the 100s of
millions, while Linux and other UNIXes that run Apache are only a
small percentage of that.
it will definitely be a lot better than the poor Personal Web
Server currently on offer. Remember Internet Explorer 2.0 in Win95 ?
It couldn't compete with the then market leader, Netscape. It was also
"hidden" away, deep inside the start menu. But then IE 3.0, 4.0 and
5.0 came out with a force, with Microsoft putting much more emphasis
on it - directly on the desktop, and impossible to get away from in
Win98.
This new free MS web server may not be as fast, or feature rich
as their current IIS server, but people will be easier to convince to
upgrade from the free server to WindowsNT (or whatever its called
these days) and the IIS server after being
used to a Microsoft product. Even if the free web server eats
into their NT sales, their thinking is that it is at least a Microsoft
web server and not Apache...
... which leads us to: Microsoft will add some Internet
Explorer-only features into their new web server (small at first),
thus attempting to control the server and client side at the same
time. Using Netscape to access the web server ? Too bad it won't do
SomeCoolNewFeature - normal people and Windows geeks won't be
impressed...
The new free web server / Windows 2000 combination will reduce
the appeal of Apache, and hence, Linux (sinceit is the primary
platform on which Apache runs on). The main attraction of Linux/Apache
is the price and functionality. To
most people, its Open SourceNess is a secondary bonus. Microsoft
understands this and is attempting to weave a self-fullfilling
prophecy of "Linux is only a fad". Stability is of course important,
but Microsoft's Marketing Power (tm)
will make sure that this is non-issue when the advertising
(read: hype) campaign starts for Windows 2000.
Attacking Apache with this kind of tactic is not legally painful
as integrating the browser was. After all, Apache isn't made by a
company. To the legal system and Microsoft, Apache came out of the
ether and its secretary is a website.
Overall, this strategy isn't much different from what Microsoft
did to Netscape. MS is yet again leveraging the Windows installed user
base to counter a new threat: Open Source Software. But this threat is
of much greater importance and
greater stakes are at play here. They know OSS works. They know
it has better stuff than they make. They know it develops quicker.
They are scared of becoming obsolete. But most of all they are scared
of not being on top, not being able to dictate. Not being able to
control.
The Mindcraft "Benchmarks" were the first phase of the Web
Server straregy - designed to throw seeds of doubt against Apache. Too
bad for Microsoft they actually helped the development of Linux and
Apache.
Recommendations:
Fix the performance problems in the Linux kernel and Apache as
soon as possible, to create yet another viable technical reason for
choosing Linux/Apache over Microsoft products and take the wind out
the sails of Microsoft's PR benchmark department.
Increase the population of Linux before Windows 2000 is released
by having a good office suite for Linux (KOffice and Corel Office are
good candidates).
Final Thoughts:
Steve Ballmer on Linux: "one of the five problems, which employ
me before falling asleep. But I sleep nevertheless still quite well."
Let's make him sleep unwell.
(C) 1999 Conrad Sanderson, 29-Jun-1999. Free to reproduce in
unmodified form.
Category: Editorial
Source-
http://www.freshmeat.net/news/1999/06/29/930681728.html
--
*remove all the Xs (upper case X) if reply by e mail.
** no more M$ Windoze.
------------------------------
From: "Bunbi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: [NEED] RPM GUI
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:22:15 -0400
Reply-To: "Bunbi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I am in a process of packaging some software packages that I downloaded off
the FTP sites. I would like to compile and pack the binary distribution
using RPM. Is there a GUI for RPM?
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Tarkaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can't get linux to open
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:37:40 -0400
NEEDHELP wrote:
>
> Many thanks for replies:
>
> Unable to connect BootMagic to the active partition.
> Did not load LILO. Do Not Like
Why do you want to use BootMagic? Using a boot loader *and* lilo is
problematic (so I've heard). Read the Lilo HOWTO for more information.
-- Jack Tarkaan Kalamazoo, Michigan
-- http://www.bigfoot.com/~tarkaan mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- NO UNSOLICITED E-MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS - Respect privacy - NO SPAM!!!!
------------------------------
From: Thomas Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,alt.os.slackware,comp.os.linux.security
Subject: Permissions - why can a user delete a file not his own?
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:27:59 -0500
I have a group call acct (GID 504). The users beth (UID 510) and thomas
(UID 508) are members. Their primary group membership is to group users
(GID 100).
I have a directory called acct, owned by user root and group acct, and
ls -l shows its permissions are like this:
drwxrwx-- 2 root acct 1024 Jun 30 17:16 acct
I need all acct group members to be able to write files to this
directory, but I do not want them to be able to delete other users'
files in the directory.
In that directory, I have a file called tcdata, and ls -l shows
permissions set as follows:
-rw-r--r-- 1 thomas users 50 Jun 30 17:15 tcdata
That tells me that user thomas can modify it, but no one else can.
However, when beth logs in, if she rm's the file, it asks if she wants
to override permissions 0644. When she says yes, the file is gone.
What am I missing? What do I do to make it so that folks can create
files, modify their own files, but not delete or modify other folks'
files?
Thanks!
Thomas Cameron
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.setup.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.sys.hp.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Need Iomega Ditto 3200 (3.2G) Tape Drive info
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:42:59 -0400
On 06/30/99 at 11:44 AM, "Actarus [VL]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
said:
>> On 06/29/99 at 10:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ron Gibson) said:
>>
>> >I'm considering getting an Iomega 3200 (3.2 G) floppy connected internal
>> >tape backup.
>>
>> Wow... that's GOTTA be slow.
>Nope... a floppy port connection is faster than a parallel port. Trust
>me, my Ditto 2000 is external.
Huh! Learn something every day :)
--
=======================================
Andrey Lasichuk ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
=======================================
------------------------------
From: Alex Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FWD- MS in frame in 4m user 'racism' class action bid
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:38:45 -0700
Posted 30/06/99 7:15pm by Graham Lea
=============FWD==================
MS in frame in 4m user 'racism' class action bid
Microsoft has been accused of racism in an action in the San Diego
federal District Court by John Elijah, a black man. He complains that
an image of a black couple contained in MS Publisher is displayed if a
user searches the images for "monkey".
Elijah, a building site worker who is married with two children, said
he was humiliated, and that his wife was frightened of being attacked
by skinheads as a consequence. He also added that he was not bringing
the action for money, but to get the problem fixed.
Microsoft's resident apologist Greg Shaw said in a stock remark that
sounded about as inappropriate as you could get, that: "We regret any
offence [OK so far] or inconvenience [what 'inconvenience', Shaw?]".
Any inconvenience is likely to be to Microsoft, since Elijah's lawyer,
Harvey Levine, is hoping to turn the action into a class suit, which
could involve up to four million black and white people who have
bought the product going after Microsoft for money, in most cases. �
source http://theregister.co.uk/990630-000037.html
===============================================
Microsoft on Trial
Bootnotes: Industry Gossip
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** no more M$ Windoze.
------------------------------
From: Brian Olson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Modem problem :-(
Date: 1 Jul 1999 00:30:46 GMT
Sravanthi Cheruku wrote:
> Could someone help me setup my modem in Linux? I have an AOpen_FM56PVS-T
> internal ISA modem. The modems list says this should work. I tried doing
> isapnp and it says modem is setup OK. I set the port to 0x3E8 and IRQ 5
> in my isapnp.conf file. However I can't get it to work using
> kppp/kermit/minicom. Please help. Thanks.
>
> Cheruku
>
I just went though the same problem with my Zoom 2919 modem. I did three
different things (I dont know which one rectified the problem though) to
get my modem running.
1) BIOS - I set COMM1 & COMM2 to AUTO instead of the hardset hex values.
2) BIOS - I set my modem IRQ to the IRQ on my card (3).
3) Modem Card - I set the jumpers on the card so it was not expecting to
see a Plug and Play OS. Look in the manual. I had to dig deep.
It seems to work fine now with kppp or minicom.
================== Posted via SearchLinux ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Tsakiris)
Subject: Re: This is my favorite Linux site (it has everything)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 17:38:50 -0400
> This is my favorite Linux site (it has everything) Http:\\209.35.64.222
> check it out as soon as you can. Lots of downloads.
Happy for you. No DNS names, no visit. Nice try though.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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