Linux-Misc Digest #868, Volume #24 Mon, 19 Jun 00 21:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: mind hours in development Linux vs. Windows (Doc Shipley)
Re: mind hours in development Linux vs. Windows ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Good linux printer (Andreas Schweitzer)
Re: Question about programs (Hal Burgiss)
Re: Question about programs (Robert Schweikert)
Re: linux as a gateway... (Robert Schweikert)
Re: Installing Windoze and Linux (Leonard Evens)
Re: Masquerading with SuSE 6.4 and T-dsl (Michael Guse)
gcc help (Robert Schweikert)
Backup hard drive to CD directly with Linux Prog?? (Glenn)
Re: linux as a gateway... (Joe Chiasson)
Re: mind hours in development Linux vs. Windows (Bill Unruh)
Re: /boot partition (Leonard Evens)
Re: Server--Client problem (Erwin Susanto)
Re: LILO brain-teaser - can you solve it?: Added new HD, hdb7 is now hdc7, need
help restoring LILO (Adrian)
Re: mount question ("David ..")
Installing Linux from a ZIP drive? (andrey)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Doc Shipley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: mind hours in development Linux vs. Windows
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:01:27 GMT
Oliver Baker wrote:
> Would anyone care to compare--either quantitatively or
> qualitatively--the number of mind hours that have gone into developing
> Linux as an OS verus what has gone into developing Windows as an OS?
>
Totally unworkable comparison. MS products' development is directed at
and dictated by commercial goals. Linux development, while building on a
base of commercial design (Websearch: UNIX), has been directed almost
exclusively toward functionality. Before anybody jumps, I *do* include
games, UI, and user comfort as components of functionality. You're
comparing an AutoCAD blueprint to a commercial webpage.
> I'm writing a magazine article for a trade magazine and don't know much
> about this stuff. I've heard people call Linux more reliable than
> Windows. If true, it seems to me that this could be because
> a) Linux is better designed
See above.
> b)it attempts to do less,
Linux not only attempts to do more, it DOES more. Anecdote:
When I started my current job running an NT/Win98 subnet, I was
woefully ignorant with NT Server. I wanted to set up the telnet daemon
on my server, but could not find the configuration dialog. Nor was
telnet service mentioned in any Help file. Finally, in my NT Server
Resource Kit, I find that "NT Server does not ship with a telnet
service. For those who wish to provide this function, there are many
freeware and shareware telnet servers available on the Internet."
Excuse me. NT Server was shipping at ~$800 for a 5-seat license. And MS
tells me to download shareware to provide a BASIC service.
> c) more people have invested time in making it work and/or c)smarter people (and,
>hey, let's say better looking while we're at it) have invested time in making it work
Linux = Time Invested In "Making It Work"
Microsoft = Time Invested In Selling Product
See above.
Oliver, no offense, man, but you're not qualified to do what you're
trying to do. You keep saying you're not a computer person, and that's
painfully obvious. This is like a guy without a driver's license
comparing Kenworth & Peterbilt. I'm not telling you to go away. We/I
don't WANT to run you off. But you really need some personal
understanding of the questions you're asking.
At the very least, you need to start with a blank harddrive, a copy of
Mandrake, SuSE, or RedHat, and a copy of NT. Workstation will do, Sever
would be a better comparison. Install. Configure services. Write papers,
play Freecell, dial up your ISP. Come back in two weeks.
While you're at it, if you want a REAL demonstration, post this & your
previous questions to some NT newsgroups...
--
Doc Shipley
Network Stuff
Austin, Earth
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: mind hours in development Linux vs. Windows
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:00:17 -0500
Oliver Baker wrote:
> I'm writing a magazine article for a trade magazine and don't know much
> about this stuff. I've heard people call Linux more reliable than
> Windows. If true, it seems to me that this could be because a) Linux is
> better designed b)it attempts to do less, c) more people have invested
> time in making it work and/or c)smarter people (and, hey, let's say
> better looking while we're at it) have invested time in making it work
> (I guess there's some overlap with "a)" here).
d) Windows is written by people who want to *sell* it, whereas Linux is
written by people who want to *use* it.
There is probably a strong element of a) as well. For Windows, everything
is "integrated" either for marketing reasons or else for speed, but for
Linux everything is layered according to good engineering principles; speed
rightly takes second place to correctness and reliability.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andreas Schweitzer)
Subject: Re: Good linux printer
Date: 20 Jun 2000 00:06:03 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <8im4p7$4s3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Sorry if I this question has been asked...
>
>I have a dual boot box with Linux/W98. I am planning to buy a printer
>that works on linux. I know that there are some win printers that do
>not work on linux.
Go to :
http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/pht/
Especially the Compatability database.
Cheers
Andreas
--
Andreas Schweitzer
http://dilbert.physast.uga.edu/~andy/
This post is brought to you by VIM, slrn and FreeBSD
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hal Burgiss)
Subject: Re: Question about programs
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:06:29 GMT
On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:30:06 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I got a distro of linux and its got all these RPMs but I have no clue
>what they install. There is nothing on the cd to tell me what they are
>or what they do. Where can I find a nice list of comon linux rpm or
>programs that are generally packaged with a distro.
Redhat usually includes a complete list of packages with a brief
description in the back of the Installation Guide (or whatever they call
it). Both hard copy, and on the CD in html. I would think other distros
do something similar.
Also, you can use the command 'rpm -qpi <package>.rpm' to get a brief
description. A very short script could extract this for all rpms on a
CD.
#!/bin/bash
cd /mnt/cdrom/Redhat/RPMS
for i in *.rpm; do
#divider...
echo ================================ >> /tmp/packages
echo $i:
rpm -qpi $i >> /tmp/packages
done
Note this is completely untested, but should be close.
--
Hal B
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
------------------------------
From: Robert Schweikert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question about programs
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:10:31 -0400
Try rpm -r -i package_name
where package_name is the name of the rpm.
This is directly from the rpm man page.
Happy Hacking.
Robert
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I got a distro of linux and its got all these RPMs but I have no clue what
> they install. There is nothing on the cd to tell me what they are or what
> they do. Where can I find a nice list of comon linux rpm or programs that
> are generally packaged with a distro.
>
> --
> Posted via CNET Help.com
> http://www.help.com/
--
Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU
[EMAIL PROTECTED] LINUX
------------------------------
From: Robert Schweikert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: linux as a gateway...
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:16:27 -0400
You should look at Samba (http://us1.samba.org/samba/samba.html) for file
sharing etc. and setting your Linux box up as your WINS server for the crash
prone boxes.
Happy hacking.
Robert
CME wrote:
> I am a newbie to linux/networking so bear with me...
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction for using my linux box as a
> gateway for the Winblows computers on my LAN? I want to stay away from a
> proxy [Squid] if possible. Someone mentioned NAT to me, but is there another
> way?
>
> TIA,
> CME
--
Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU
[EMAIL PROTECTED] LINUX
------------------------------
From: Leonard Evens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Installing Windoze and Linux
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:13:07 -0500
Simon Lemieux wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm going to need Windoze... I just got hired to write plugins for 3dStudio
> and I don't even know how it works... So I need Windoze to play with it... I
> know Windows will complain if it's not in the first partition or something like
> that...
> Now, I'm very familiar with fdisk (linux), but can someone show me a good
> partition table for linux&windows?
>
> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
> /dev/hda1 * 1 751 6032376 83 Linux
> /dev/hda2 752 784 265072+ 5 Extended
> /dev/hda5 752 784 265041 82 Linux swap
>
> hda1 is /root
> hda2 is /boot (i think?)
No. hda2 is an extended partition as it says. PC architecture
(independent of the OS) only supports 4 primary partitions.
But one of these can be an extended partition which may contain
within it several logical partitions. This is the way to have
more than 5 partitions. In your case you seem to have only
one Linux partition, of six GB. You also have a swap partition
(inside of the extended partition) of 256 Meg. This is a bit large
for a swap partition, but I understand that with the latest
kernels one can have larger swap partitions. There used to
be no point in one larger than 128 MB. If you just have Linux
on your computer, you could probably get away with just four
primary partitions, one of which was swap. Something like this
would work
/dev/hda1 20 MB for /boot
/dev/hda2 2 GB for /
/dev/hda3 4 GB for /home
/dev/hda4 256 MB for swap
You could also have more partitions and one can argue about
that forever---and some people will. If you want more than
four partitions, you will need one extended partition with
several logical partitions therein.
> hda5 is swap
>
> What should I add where? Also, I not familiar with LILO and I don't have a
> floppy disk drive...
>
> Thanks for the help,
> Simon
I think that Windows normally has to be the first partition,
although I've seen claims otherwise. Depending on how large
your Windows partition has to be, you may or may not run into
the 1024 cylinder problem. But you can probably beat that
using the latest version of Linux. Except for that, here
might be a reasonable partitioning
/dev/hda1 2 GB for Windows
/dev/hda2 20 MB for /boot
/dev/hda3 1.5 GB for /
/dev/hda4 the rest of the disk extended
/dev/hda5 256 MB swap
/dev/hda6 the rest of the disk for /home
--
Leonard Evens [EMAIL PROTECTED] 847-491-5537
Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208
------------------------------
From: Michael Guse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Masquerading with SuSE 6.4 and T-dsl
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:19:53 GMT
On 08.06.00, 15:42:37, "Ralf Rienecker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am trying to solve this problem for over a mount with out real=20
success.
> The dudes in the shared flat are still thinking how they can punish me=
=20
;-).
I hope I do not need to try so long ... :-(
I have the same problems with the same configuration.
> It is possible to make DNS lookups from the clients. For example "ping=
> www.heise.de". But when I try to surf to a link in a browser, it makes=
=20
the
> DNS lookup (finding site.) but then noting ever happened. When I type =
a
> ftp-link in my browser the directory structure is shown but after a=20=
few
> clicks the transmission freezes. Window`s ftp-client gives the error:=
This is the same for all services which have more than a few hundred=20=
bytes=20
transferred over a single TCP connection.
Before I have got DSL I worked with ISDN and so I still have some=20
other ways
to get to the internet. And this is an interesting fact:
With the same setup (except the other interface in the ipchains=20
command), everything
works fine.
Is it possible that there is a timing problem within the masq. Stack?
Bye
Michael Guse
------------------------------
From: Robert Schweikert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: gcc help
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:22:26 -0400
In my dark hours I sometimes run off and think I always have to have the
latest and greatest. Well so I installed the mandrake rpm for gcc-2.95.2
on my RH6.2 linux box. That led to not finding the header files. Rahter
than messing around trying to figure out how to make gcc-2.95.2 bahave I
thought I just go back to the gcc version which came with the distro
2.91-66. But now I get the following message:
cpp: -lang-c++: linker input file unused since linking not done
The code I compiled worked but I don't think I got this message prior to
messing up what was working.
What to do to get rid ogf the message?
Thanks,
Robert
--
Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU
[EMAIL PROTECTED] LINUX
------------------------------
From: Glenn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Backup hard drive to CD directly with Linux Prog??
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:28:59 GMT
Hi,
Is there a way to backup yor Linux partitions to a CD in one step? What
about spanning multiple CDs?
Thanks,
Glenn
=====
------------------------------
From: Joe Chiasson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: linux as a gateway...
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:33:01 GMT
Take a look at ipchains....and Masqueradeing...
CME wrote:
> I am a newbie to linux/networking so bear with me...
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction for using my linux box as a
> gateway for the Winblows computers on my LAN? I want to stay away from a
> proxy [Squid] if possible. Someone mentioned NAT to me, but is there another
> way?
>
> TIA,
> CME
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: mind hours in development Linux vs. Windows
Date: 20 Jun 2000 00:39:55 GMT
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Colin Smith)
writes:
>What about d) The source code is available to all? Read the Cathedral
>and the Bazaar by Eric Raymond:
Although his contention is that all bugs are shallow in open source,
this is less true than it should be. See the recent bug report on the
PGP5.0(?) disasterous bug for automatically generated keys. For two
years this open source program had a disasterous bug, and it was only
discovered recently. Of course you could argue that the the only reason
it was actually discovered at all was that it was open source, but 2
years is a long time for a shallow bug to stay hidden.
Ie, to find the bugs, the code actually has to be read and studied. With
something like linux, I suspect there are vast tacts of it which have
only ever been studied by the original writer.
------------------------------
From: Leonard Evens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: /boot partition
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:22:09 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I have been using Linux for about a year. I have always used LILO to dual
> boot WIN98/Linux. Whenever I have needed to reinstall LILO after a WIN98
> install I just use my Linux startup disk I created during installation and
> then reconfigure LILO. I have had no problems with this. I was wondering
> though how the /boot partion works. Can LILO go in there? Is it a
> partition to boot from like it sounds? What are the advantages of using
> it? How do I set it up?
There are a couple of advantages to a /boot partition. First
it is one way to get around the 1024 cylinder limit problem.
The latest version of lilo can get around this if your BIOS
supports the extende disk call, but this version is not yet
available as part of most distributions. Second, it is sometimes
useful to isolate the kernel and associated files in a
separate partition anyway. So it is a good idea.
The thing that puzzled me was that /etc/lilo.conf nowhere mentions
/boot. I conjecture something like this happens. With
Linux installed and /boot a separate partition mounted on the
directory /boot, when you run /sbin/lilo, it looks at your
system for the /boot directory. If that has a partition mounted
on it, lilo is smart enough to determine the absolute disk
addresses of the files that it needs to use to boot Linux.
It records those somewhere in the boot loader files. So
when you boot, the system knows where on the disk to go to
start loading the kernel.
If anyone can provide more details about how lilo does its work
and how the boot loader works, by all means do so.
> Thank you JH
>
> --
> Posted via CNET Help.com
> http://www.help.com/
--
Leonard Evens [EMAIL PROTECTED] 847-491-5537
Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208
------------------------------
From: Erwin Susanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Server--Client problem
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:32:13 +1000
==============5A7C6889D0D99CE22F4AC123
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thank you for the reply Dances with Crows :)
I was trying to run netscape on my own local machine.....
I'll try what you suggested by "xhost +localhost"...
Also after making connection to ISP, the error message appears again when I try
to run xdvi previewer...
After closing the connsction to ISP, xdvi works properly again...
If I "xhost +localhost", all X-Client applications error can be fixed ???
Dances With Crows wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:37:58 +1000, Erwin Susanto
> <<8ilbn5$gr7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
> >When I run netscape after making connection to my ISP, it says that
> >"Xlib:cannot open display:0.0" "Client is not authorized by server"
> >
> >What is wrong with that ?
> >
> >I tried to export DISPLAY="......:0.0" but still not working
>
> Are you trying to run Netscape off a remote machine, or your local
> machine? If it's a remote machine, you need to read the man page
> for xauth or do "xhost +remote_machine_name". If it's the local
> machine, then you should first try "xhost +localhost". I've found
> that if you connect using DHCP, often the hostname of your machine gets
> munged and this invalidates X's magic cookie file.
>
> --
> Matt G / Dances With Crows /\ "Man could not stare too long at the face
> \----[this space for rent]-----/ \ of the Computer or her children and still
> \There is no Darkness in Eternity \ remain as Man." --David Zindell "So did
> But only Light too dim for us to see\ they become Gods, or Usenetters?" --/me
--
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Erwin Susanto |
| Computational Fluid Dynamics Research |
| School of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering |
| The University of New South Wales |
| Sydney 2052 Australia |
| |
| Phone : (+61 2) 96621191 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
| Mobile: (+61 2) 0413-872-651 |
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
.
==============5A7C6889D0D99CE22F4AC123
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Thank you for the reply Dances with Crows :)
<p>I was trying to run netscape on my own local machine.....
<br>I'll try what you suggested by "xhost +localhost"...
<br>Also after making connection to ISP, the error message appears
again when I try to run xdvi previewer...
<br>After closing the connsction to ISP, xdvi works properly again...
<br>If I "xhost +localhost", all X-Client applications error can be fixed
???
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p>Dances With Crows wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:37:58 +1000, Erwin Susanto
<br><<8ilbn5$gr7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the
ether:
<br>>When I run netscape after making connection to my ISP, it says that
<br>>"Xlib:cannot open display:0.0" "Client is not authorized by server"
<br>>
<br>>What is wrong with that ?
<br>>
<br>>I tried to export DISPLAY="......:0.0" but still not working
<p>Are you trying to run Netscape off a remote machine, or your local
<br>machine? If it's a remote machine, you need to read the man page
<br>for xauth or do "xhost +remote_machine_name". If it's the local
<br>machine, then you should first try "xhost +localhost". I've found
<br>that if you connect using DHCP, often the hostname of your machine
gets
<br>munged and this invalidates X's magic cookie file.
<p>--
<br>Matt G / Dances With Crows /\
"Man could not stare too long at the face
<br>\----[this space for rent]-----/ \ of the Computer
or her children and still
<br> \There is no Darkness in Eternity \ remain as Man." --David
Zindell "So did
<br>But only Light too dim for us to see\ they become Gods, or Usenetters?"
--/me</blockquote>
<pre>--
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
|
| Erwin
|Susanto
| |
|
| Computational Fluid Dynamics
|Research
| |
| School of Mechanical and
|Manufacturing Engineering |
|
| The University of New South
|Wales
| |
|
| Sydney 2052
|Australia
| |
|
| |
| Phone : (+61 2) 96621191 E-mail:
|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
||
| Mobile: (+61 2)
|0413-872-651
| |
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*</pre>
.</html>
==============5A7C6889D0D99CE22F4AC123==
------------------------------
From: Adrian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,linux.redhat,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: LILO brain-teaser - can you solve it?: Added new HD, hdb7 is now hdc7,
need help restoring LILO
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:08:11 -0700
Gregg Giles wrote:
>
> Hello all -
>
Did you change the /etc/fstab file to reflect the new changes in drive
assignments? I don't see a LILO problem here, just the fact that the
drives (i.e. /boot) aren't were Linux/LILO expects them to be so they
can't be mounted correctly, unless I'm missing something here.
--
- I just tried this on my old Packard Bell 486/66 w/4MB (Hey ...
- shut-up! I was young, ignorant, and didn't know anything about
- hardware or quality manufacturers.).
------------------------------
From: "David .." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: mount question
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:52:10 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I couldn't figure this out reading man mount: How do I set up my fstab
> file so that the floppy will mount both a ext2 and a vfat filesystem
> floppy. CAn I set it up so that it will work with whatever I stick in the
> drive?
>
> --
> Posted via CNET Help.com
> http://www.help.com/
/dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy ext2 noauto,user,owner 0 0
/dev/fd0 /mnt/vflop vfat noauto,user,owner 0 0
Then mount /mnt/floppy or vflop
--
Registered with the Linux Counter. http://counter.li.org
ID # 123538
------------------------------
From: andrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Installing Linux from a ZIP drive?
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:57:28 -0700
Greetings!
I have an old 486, it doesn't have a CD-ROM or a network card. I have
RedHat 5.1 on CD and a parallel port ZIP drive. Can I install linux
from the ZIP drive? If so, how?
Thanks,
Andrey.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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