Linux-Misc Digest #171, Volume #21 Mon, 26 Jul 99 13:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: Need opinions- how's S.u.S.E. 6.1 (Michael Hasenstein)
Re: Linux & Oracle8 DB: setting & exporting? (Michael Hasenstein)
Re: POP Mail? (Britt)
Re: vmlinuz?? (Adam C. Emerson)
quake II for Linux (The Dude)
Re: Loadable Modules...Help ("Martin P. Peikert")
Loadable Modules...Help ("Brad Stevenson")
Re: USR modem. Caldera 2.2. ("William H. Pridgen")
banners (dave johnson)
Re: kernel panic: unable to mount root fs on 03:42 (Juergen Pfann)
Linux C++ function and class reference ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Loadable Modules...Help ("Brad Stevenson")
Re: cp -r versus cp -R (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: quake II for Linux (Thomas Zajic)
Re: quake II for Linux (Michael Hasenstein)
Re: XFree86.conf AutoRaise found ("bob")
Why is module st0 (SCSI tape drive) always loaded? ("Steve Snyder")
Re: spin down HDD (Simon Hosie)
New Thread: Richard Kulisz is a sicko. ("U. Art")
2 Nics on 1 PC ("Kalle Wisch")
backing up system (Derek Ealy)
Re: chroot (Tom Fawcett)
Re: backing up system (David)
Re: quake II for Linux ("Mav")
Re: redhat vs suse (Stuart R. Fuller)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Hasenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Need opinions- how's S.u.S.E. 6.1
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:41:11 +0200
Nick Zentena wrote:
> But aren't there problems with 3.3.4? I thought that was the reason
> 3.3.5 is coming out so quickly after 3.3.4. At least thats my
> understanding. Now if I'm wrong then I'll go download it now-)
No. Besides, one of the guy who make the XF86 releases is chairman of
SuSE Rhein/Main, and he should know ;-)
--
Michael Hasenstein
http://www.csn.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/
Private Pilot (ASEL) since 1998
------------------------------
From: Michael Hasenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux & Oracle8 DB: setting & exporting?
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:01:28 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I'm trying to run the oratab.sh script in teh orainst directory
> (yes, from the root account), and am getting this response:
>
> ORACLE_OWNER is not set.
> Set and export ORACLE_Owner, then restart oratab.sh execution.
>
> how? (I'm pretty new to all this...)
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Raquel
use the following patch (I have it from SuSE):
--- orainst/oratab.sh 1998/11/03 18:29:43 1.1
+++ orainst/oratab.sh 1998/11/03 18:30:42
@@ -7,7 +7,7 @@
# which have it conditionally defined in ss_install.h
CHOWN=/bin/chown
CHGRP=/bin/chgrp
-GROUPS=/usr/bin/groups
+GROUPSCMD=/usr/bin/groups
# Group file
@@ -136,7 +136,7 @@
# a member. This fixes bug 630120 where oratab.sh was not looking in
# the password file for group membership.
-ALL_GROUPS=`${GROUPS} ${ORACLE_OWNER}`
+ALL_GROUPS=`${GROUPSCMD} ${ORACLE_OWNER}`
OWNER_IN_GROUP=false
for group in ${ALL_GROUPS}
--
Michael Hasenstein
http://www.csn.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/
Private Pilot (ASEL) since 1998
------------------------------
From: Britt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.slackware,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: POP Mail?
Date: 26 Jul 1999 13:23:56 GMT
In comp.os.linux.networking Lindoze 2000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: anyone know how to tell if POP mail is running ?
'telnet machine.in.question 110'
if you get a greeting from the server then it is running.
B
=======================================================================
Britt Bolen [EMAIL PROTECTED] britt.bolen.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adam C. Emerson)
Subject: Re: vmlinuz??
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:31:28 GMT
On 16 Jul 1999 17:50:45 GMT, lawrence ta-wei lu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>hi,
>
>i'm a newbie to Linux. i just installed Slackware 4.0 and i guess
>i'm running the vmlinuz kernel. i was wondering how one decides
>to change/upgrade kernels. I don't see any problem with the one
>I'm using but i keep reading about people upgrading their kernels.
>I just wanted to know why someone upgrades a kernel and if i should.
>
>Thanks
>
>-Larry
>
Read the Kernel-HOWTO
--
Adam C. Emerson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.calvin.edu/~aemers19/
Movesource Network Systems Specialist
". . . and then proceeds to ignore it and read news all day."
------------------------------
From: The Dude <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: quake II for Linux
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:21:27 GMT
hey guys,
does anyone know where quake II for linux can be found?
--
Regards
The Dude
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: "Martin P. Peikert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Loadable Modules...Help
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:05:00 +0200
You have to compile your kernel with ethernet support built in, then the
driver will be loaded at boot time. The easiest way is: log in as root.
Change to the directory /usr/src/linux and "make xconfig" (I hope this
works on Debian...). See the kernel-howto for further information. After
the configuration of the kernel do a "make dep clean modules
modules_install zImage zlilo". This will build your new kernel, the
modules and installs them all.
Or try "insmod eepro100", but this won't load the module at boot time, but
will do for a test.
###############################################################################
Dipl. Math. Martin Peikert
Institut fuer Nachrichtentechnik und Theoretische Elektrotechnik
Technische Universitaet Berlin
Einsteinufer 17
D-10587 Berlin
Sekretariat EN 2
Tel: 314-23881, Fax: 314-22284
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
###############################################################################
Hiermit widerspreche ich der Nutzung oder Uebermittlung meiner
Daten fuer Werbezwecke oder fuer die Markt- oder Meinungsforschung
gemaess Par. 28 Abs. 3 Bundesdatenschutzgesetz.
On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Brad Stevenson wrote:
> To help publicly demonstrate my inexperience with Linux, I'm going to ask
> for help with my problem here.
>
> I recently installed Debian Slink on my computer. At the time I had no
> Ethernet card. I am using a modem for a dial up connection to my ISP. I have
> been since given a network card. I building a home network (Linux & NT).
>
> Anyway, after reading the Ethernet HowTo, I still have some questions.
> Mainly, how do I load the driver for my nic at boot up? It is an
> EtherExpress 100B. I've found the loadable module on my computer
> (eepro100.o) but I don't really know what to do with it. I've read quite a
> bit about Ethernet cards in the last couple of days, and I'm sure I've
> probably read the answer to my question in black and white, but some how it
> hasn't clicked.
>
> If someone could point to toward the documentation I need, I'd really
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Brad Stevenson, CET, MCP
> Product Development & Support
> NCA Microelectronics
> www.ncamicro.com
> 1-877-SCRAMBLE
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Brad Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Loadable Modules...Help
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:37:25 -0500
To help publicly demonstrate my inexperience with Linux, I'm going to ask
for help with my problem here.
I recently installed Debian Slink on my computer. At the time I had no
Ethernet card. I am using a modem for a dial up connection to my ISP. I have
been since given a network card. I building a home network (Linux & NT).
Anyway, after reading the Ethernet HowTo, I still have some questions.
Mainly, how do I load the driver for my nic at boot up? It is an
EtherExpress 100B. I've found the loadable module on my computer
(eepro100.o) but I don't really know what to do with it. I've read quite a
bit about Ethernet cards in the last couple of days, and I'm sure I've
probably read the answer to my question in black and white, but some how it
hasn't clicked.
If someone could point to toward the documentation I need, I'd really
appreciate it.
Thanks.
--
====================================================
Brad Stevenson, CET, MCP
Product Development & Support
NCA Microelectronics
www.ncamicro.com
1-877-SCRAMBLE
------------------------------
From: "William H. Pridgen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,redhat.config
Subject: Re: USR modem. Caldera 2.2.
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:45:12 -0500
Jim Bo wrote:
>
> My modem works well in Windoze98 on COM2,IRQ3,0x2F8.
> Whats the trick to getting this thing working in Caldera Open Linux 2.2
> I can open kppp but when I try to query my modem (using all the ttyS
> entries{0-3) all I get are two different messages. One says "cannot open
> the modem" and the other says " the modem is busy". I get the "...busy"
> message on ttyS1 which I figure is where it should work.
I kept getting similar messages after booting over from Windows NT.
What I ended up having to do was to turn off the corresponding onboard
COM port in the BIOS setup.
--
Bill Pridgen
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Running Linux-Mandrake 5.3
--
Put your CPU to work for science --
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
------------------------------
From: dave johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: banners
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:48:15 -0400
http://images.portal.redhat.com/img/banner_r_u_certified.gif
/banner_training1.gif
/banner_training1.gif
/banner_training3.gif
that's all we have right now.
thanks
dave
------------------------------
From: Juergen Pfann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: kernel panic: unable to mount root fs on 03:42
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:50:09 +0200
Hello.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Scorpio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi all.
> > I've been runnuing 2.2.10 kernel for a while, and had to replace a
> > motherboard in my machine. After that, the kernel would not boot and
> > produces teh message:
> >
> > Partition check:
> > hda: hda1
> ^^^^^^^^^
> > hdb: hdb1 hdb2 hdb3 <> hdb4
> > hdc: hdc1 hdc2 <hdc5>
> > [...]
> > Kernel panic: VFS: unable to mount root fs on 03:42
> ^^^^^
> The rootfs is set incorrectly: You don't have any logic partition on hda but
> your kernel tries to mount the 38th logic partition (03:42 are the
> major:minor device numbers of /dev/hda42). Edit your lilo.conf (if you boot
> from HDD) or run rdev on the floppy (if you use such a thing for booting)
> to set the right root partition.
>
> Peter
Sorry Peter, you lead to the right way, but there's a mistake left :
both numbers are _hex_ -> 03:66 in decimal. 03 stands for minor number
3, that is the first ide channel (ide0), comprising hda _and_ hdb in
our example. Again only by heart (not at a linux machine at the moment)
I think the minor numbers for each ide interface (for example ide0 with
major 3, ide1 with major 0x16/dec.22, ide2 major 0x21/dec.33, ide3
major 0x2c/dec.44) are organized that way : 0 for the whole "master"
disk, 0x80/128 for the whole "slave"; 1-63 (dec.) for primary partitions
on the master(hda1-63 in our ex.; only the first 4 are used), 64-127 for
logical part. on the master (from hda5 on); then 128-191 for primary
part. of the slave and the rest for logical slave part. I know that's
overhead, cause you can only setup 4 primary part. anyway, but at least
in linux you could really use 64 logical part. on an IDE disk (don't
have to bother about too few "drive letters", hehe)! For SCSI the scheme
is different and less "minor-number-wasting", having 15 primary & 15
logical part. for each drive at each interface (SCSI channel) AFAIK;
still enough for most of us I think.
*Please* confirm or reject that first by e.g. "ls -la /dev/hda*
/dev/hdb*" !
So my guess is, Scorpio's kernel expects the root fs in hda7(hex.66) -
and there is no such partition. I don't have the original post any more
so maybe I'm missing additional info; did he swap his drives? where _is_
the linux system he wants to boot ? Anyway, I agree to tell the root
device to the kernel via rdev on HD or boot floppy , to edit
/etc/lilo.conf and to reinstall lilo. But in addition, you should also
be sure to edit the root fs entry in /etc/fstab (relative to the system
to be booted of course) appropriately.
Maybe I forgot to state that last one also in our discussion about
copying file systems last week. Sorry then :-( .
HTH
Juergen
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Linux C++ function and class reference
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:15:36 GMT
Can anyone recommend an exhaustive C++ reference for Linux? I'm
looking for an encyclopedia of functions. Thanks in advance!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: "Brad Stevenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Loadable Modules...Help
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:17:24 -0500
Martin,
Thanks for your reply. Actually, I did try to recompile the kernel
yesterday. I didn't specifically know what I was looking for but I figured
make config would lead me through it and I would be able to either add
ethernet support or specify the driver I wanted to use or something. I
followed the instructions from Matt Welsh's "Running Linux". I suspect the
trouble I had was either because the info in the book regarding kernel
recompilation is outdated or not specific enough to the Debian dist. Anyway,
when I did try "make config" I got a error message. The machine is at home,
I am at work so I can't quote it verbatim, but the general gist was that
make didn't have any rules for config. Like I said, I can't remember the
exact wording.
I haven't found the Debian specific info for recompiling the kernel, so I'll
keep looking. I do know however, that I don't have a /usr/src/linux
directory. Probably a dead give away that things are done different with
Debian.
Also, I did try insmod eepr100, but I received another error message (which
I can't completely remember either). Something like "module or device is
busy" or something.... If I type lsmod, the only module that seems to be
loaded is Serial, so it's not like eepro100 is already loaded and I just
didn't realize it...I think.
Anyway Martin, I ramble...Thanks again, and I'll look deeper into how to
recompile the kernel with Debian.
Martin P. Peikert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> You have to compile your kernel with ethernet support built in, then the
> driver will be loaded at boot time. The easiest way is: log in as root.
> Change to the directory /usr/src/linux and "make xconfig" (I hope this
> works on Debian...). See the kernel-howto for further information. After
> the configuration of the kernel do a "make dep clean modules
> modules_install zImage zlilo". This will build your new kernel, the
> modules and installs them all.
> Or try "insmod eepro100", but this won't load the module at boot time, but
> will do for a test.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: cp -r versus cp -R
Date: 26 Jul 1999 09:40:54 -0500
In article <7ndko5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Neil W Rickert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>>Anybody understand the difference between the "cp" command's -r and -R
>>options? From man page:
>
>'/dev/null' is a non-directory which is not a regular file. 'cp -R'
>copies it by creating a devices special file in the destination.
>'cp -r' copies it by creating a regular file of length 0.
When in doubt (and you have GNU cp as linux does), use 'cp -a'.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Zajic)
Subject: Re: quake II for Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:27:17 GMT
On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:21:27 GMT, The Dude wrote:
> hey guys,
> does anyone know where quake II for linux can be found?
ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/quake2/
HTH,
Thomas
--
=--- Thomas Zajic aka ZlatkO ThE GoDFatheR, Vienna/Austria ---=
=-- "It is not easy to cut through a human head with a hacksaw." M.C. --=
=-- Posted with Free Agent 1.11/32 running on Linux 2.0.37/Wine-990226 --=
=--- Spam-proof e-mail: thomas(DOT)zajic(AT)teleweb(DOT)at ---=
------------------------------
From: Michael Hasenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: quake II for Linux
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:31:13 +0200
The Dude wrote:
>
> hey guys,
> does anyone know where quake II for linux can be found?
at www.linuxquake.com, where else ;-)
--
Michael Hasenstein
http://www.csn.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/
Private Pilot (ASEL) since 1998
------------------------------
From: "bob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: XFree86.conf AutoRaise found
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:02:38 -0700
Finally found reference to the fact that the AutoRaise had changed name and
implementation. Now a library function with delay time passed in.
Implemented with an "add-to-" operation.
Now if I can just get the geometry of the Pager to work right, will be done
for now.
bob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:7ncr9b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In 2.0.36 and previous, I was able to set AutoRaise along with AutoFocus.
> With 2.2.6 (Slakware), can't find either option in any documentation.
> AutoFocus seems to be default, but "click" is Raise default. Anyone know
> where/how to change it? Also, used to have the Pager set to 6x1 and a
small
> line on the bottom just like the small bar below it (fvwm2). When I set
> Pager to 6x1, got a "tall" bar. Want these utility bars moved down and out
> of the way of the windows. Any help appreciated.
>
> TKS..bob
>
> --
> email - bklungle at ix dot netcom dot com
>
>
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
From: "Steve Snyder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Steve Snyder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Why is module st0 (SCSI tape drive) always loaded?
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:07:17 GMT
On my all-SCSI system (RedHat v6.0, kernel v2.2.10) I build the CD-ROM
and tape drive support as modules. (These devices are rarely used so
there's no need to have the device drivers for them occupy RAM all the
time.) I notice, though, that the module for the SCSI tape drive,
"st0.o", is loaded at boot time and never removed.
Can anyone explain this to me? Thank you.
***** Steve Snyder *****
------------------------------
From: Simon Hosie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.slackware,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: spin down HDD
Date: 27 Jul 1999 03:12:50 +1200
Lindoze 2000:
> what about what J.Price said about crond jobs? I found that it does
> something too. but I got exhausted today finding out about it and what it
> does. rather its important or not. I wanted to kill crond, but I was
> afraid of potential damage to my system. any clues?
Well, I wouldn't go killing off things like that willy-nilly. Inspect them
all (in /var/spool/cron/crontabs on my system) and see what gets run once an
hour. You're looking for things that have something other than '*' in the
first field, and '*' in most fields after that. Try to find the man page on
each and then decide what you want to do about them that way.
--
# Please try to quote no more than you need to show the context of your post.
# If you also quote my .Sig then I hate you and I hope you get hiccups.
#
# email: Gumboot, at an ISP named Clear.Net, in New Zealand.
------------------------------
From: "U. Art" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: New Thread: Richard Kulisz is a sicko.
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 02:38:38 +0600
Like that title says. Any comments <g>?
------------------------------
From: "Kalle Wisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 2 Nics on 1 PC
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:04:53 +0200
Help.
We are trying to configure a Firewall and we have 2 Network Cards running.
Each in a different segment of the Net and different domains.
They are both working, but the ping answering times are very bad.
The routing seems to be wrong...
How to configure?
Greets
Kalle Wisch
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Derek Ealy)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: backing up system
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:23:10 GMT
Hi,
I have RedHat 5.1 upgraded to Kernel 2.0.36. I recently installed a
4mm DDS2 DAT drive on my linux box. I used "tar cvf /dev/st0 /" to
backup my system but it didn't fit on a single 90M tape. The DU
command reports that I have 2.6 gigs worth of data, and I believe I
have compression enabled on the drive via a jumper. Normally I would
expect at least 3 gigs to fit on a 90M tape with compression. Is there
something that I'm supposed to do via software to tell the tape drive
to compress the data? Or is tar just really inefficient in the way
that it uses a tape?
How do most people do backups on their linux machines? Both tar and
cpio seem pretty damned crude. Even NT's included NTBackup program
seems to be quite a bit more useful. Is there any decent backup
program for linux other than BRU2000? If not how does BRU2000 compare
to a serious backup program like Seagate's Backup Exec?
Thanks in advance, Derek
Remove nospam from my email address when replying to
me. My email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Need consultants for Win32 C++ VB Java DCOM and Unix development?
Check us out at http://www.grandprixsw.com
------------------------------
From: Tom Fawcett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: chroot
Date: 26 Jul 1999 11:10:47 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NF Stevens) wrote:
> > >Posting reply to comp.os.linux.misc. Deleting references to
> > >comp.os.linux.setup and comp.os.linux.networking
> > >
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Sorry to ask a question that's been posted before, but I couldn't
> find
> > >> an answer that helped . . .
> > >>
> > >> When I type
> > >> chroot /home/ftp ls (or /bin/ls)
> > >> I get
> > >> chroot: cannot execute ls: No such file or directory
> > >>
> > >> ls exists under the new root directory, as does anything else that
> it
> > >> wants to open as shown by running ls under strace.
> > >
>
> Yes I have /home/ftp/bin/ls. And yes I have /home/ftp/lib/ld.so, and
> any other libraries indicated by running ls under strace. I have no
> symbolic links going outside the new root tree. I still can't get ls
> (or any other command) to work under chroot. What am I missing?
chroot doesn't change directories, and that may be your problem. Try:
cd /home/ftp; chroot /home/ftp /bin/ls
-Tom
------------------------------
From: David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: backing up system
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:23:57 +0200
Yu should try this:
tar zcvf /dev/st0 /
------------------------------
From: "Mav" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: quake II for Linux
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:35:03 GMT
Try:
http://www.bluesnews.com/
Mav
The Dude wrote in message <7nhnch$d4h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> hey guys,
>does anyone know where quake II for linux can be found?
>
>--
>Regards
> The Dude
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stuart R. Fuller)
Subject: Re: redhat vs suse
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:10:02 GMT
David Kunz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: At the risk of starting a flame war I would like to hear opinions concurring
: redhat 6.0 and suse 6.2. All thoughtful responses are appreciated.
At the risk of sounding like I'm abusing a new-bie, let me suggest that you
look at www.deja.com and look up the previous incarnations of flame fests on
this and similar subject.
Stu
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
